Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School
Cho Seung-hui lost his mind. I think the public deserves to know who stole it from him.
Cho gave us lots of hints, and probably a lot MORE hints remain among the pages not yet published by NBC. And he also left us those photos that have run incessantly behind the talking heads of the news networks. I was watching CNN last night and most of the interviews were done split screen with the images of Cho dwarfing the images of whoever was being interviewed. That gun kept pointing right in my face over and over again. I simply had to stop watching.
And I hate to reprint one of those images here except that someone at Something Awful, a discussion board I know nothing about, noticed the similarity between one of Cho’s images and the poster for OldBoy. Here’s the original:
Alone that doesn’t tell us too much. It’s not that strange that a violence-haunted young South Korean would be attracted to a violent South Korean film. However, I think it’s worth noting that the film is not just about violence and revenge, it is also about mind control and manipulation. The hero of the film is kidnapped by an enemy (not the government) and held in a prison for fifteen years while repeatedly drugged and hypnotized to forget aspects of his life and to be “programmed” to carry out a variety of tasks under the illusion that they are of his own free will.
One can be “programmed” in this way by life itself. Given enough trauma in childhood, whole separate selves can split off and carry out lives that the primary personality isn’t even aware of. I don’t know that Cho had multiple personalities. He could simply have been suffering from schizophrenia. However, I do think it is quite reasonable to assume that Cho had experienced some fairly serious abuse. His writings and statements, disjointed as they are, focus very much on this abuse. For some reason, no one is asking many questions about that. Nor does anyone seem to be asking questions about why Cho’s high school has produced TWO psychotic young adults who went on gun rampages within one year of each other. Last May, Michael Kennedy, a student at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Virginia, went on a shooting rampage at a police station, killing two police officers before being fatally shot himself. Authorities consider this just a “horrible coincidence”. Adding to the coincidence is that Michael’s father, Brian Kennedy, was just recently released from jail in charges related to that killing. In fact, he was due in court the day after the Cho killings.
Kennedy was another troubled loner. He suffered, say news accounts, from delusions and grandiose paranoia. Said one friend:
“He thought he was Jesus. He talked about aliens,” said Brandon Baker, a friend of Kennedy’s since sixth grade. Baker said Kennedy told him he sometimes took medication. “He was talking about how he was superhuman.”
Kennedy had also recently changed his MySpace profile name from Kennedy to “Herr Azriel,” in reference to an angel of destruction.
Just before his killing spree, Kennedy text messaged a friend to say that therapy and medication had not worked for him. The only thing he could think of was an “exorcism.”
What didn’t help things much is that Kennedy’s parents, who knew Michael was mentally ill, kept weapons around the house. A LOT of weapons:
The indictment states that Brian Kennedy illegally possessed 20 firearms, including an AK-47 and several bolt-action and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. He also owned a large variety of handguns — among them a .38 Special Taurus and a 9 mm Luger Commander semi-automatic pistol.
Weapons were everywhere in the Kennedy home; the inventory list of items seized is 10 pages long. Under the mattress in the master bedroom were a Colt 9 mm handgun with one round in the chamber and a leather sheath containing a 9-inch knife. On the nightstand were a bayonet plus high-velocity ammunition for a Remington, semi-automatic shotgun.
A Smith & Wesson knife was under the left, loveseat cushion in the living room, and both a 12-gauge shotgun and a 22-caliber long rifle stood in the corner of the hallway to the basement. An M80 explosive was tucked inside a kitchen cabinet to the right of the stove, and an Atlanta Sharptec knife was stored in the ceiling above the utility-room door.
And his mom did what any concerned mother might do…she took him to a firing range to practice with his new AK.
Strangely, news accounts calling the two shooter’s connection via Westfield High a “coincidence” suggest that they were not at the school at the same time:
Cho and Kennedy lived in Centreville and graduated from Westfield High School, said Officer Courtney Thibault of the Fairfax County Police Department. She said Cho graduated four years ahead of Kennedy.
I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, but help me with this math. Michael Kennedy graduated in 2005 and Cho Seung-hui graduated in 2003. The former principle repeats this odd math.
“The killer’s been out of school for five years. Michael Kennedy had been out of school a year. There’s no correlation,” (former principal Campbell) said.
Hang on…let me try this out. 2005 – 2003 = 2. That’s a two year gap in graduation years. High school usually lasts 4 years. Or, let’s try his assertion that Cho had been “out of school for five years.” 2007 – 2003 = 4. And as to Kennedy having been out “one year”: 2007-2005 = 2. In other words, every single factual assertion in that statement is wrong.
I’ve seen no evidence that these two knew each other. But I also haven’t seen much evidence that anyone has bothered to check it out, much less bothered with the arithmetic.
It gets worse, of course, as these things always do. First, have a look at Cho’s literary efforts. Two very short plays that were so horribly written it does make one wonder how he made it to his senior year at Va Tech. One is called “Mr. Brownstone“. In that play, three young people at a casino complain that they can’t find anywhere safe from “Mr. Brownstone.” That name is used by band Guns-n-Roses to mean heroin, but in this case it is a math teacher who has “ass-raped probably half the kids in the school.” That, after all, says one character, is “what high school teachers do.”
When Brownstone does show up, one character asks: “I feel a satanic presence around me. Do you guys feel it?” They then sing much of the Guns -’n-Roses song. Then the main character John wins at the slot machine only to have his winnings taken by Brownstone.
In Richard McBeef, the abuser is this time “John’s” stepfather. In this play, John is only 13. While having a talk with John, Richard puts his hand on the boy’s lap and John explodes, calling him a pedophile and a “Catholic priest.” He then claims that this step-father had murdered his real father and covered it up like “the government has done to John Lennon and Marilyn Monroe.”
Really all I have done here is show that two troubled young adults came out of the same school. But what a school. Westfield High School happens to be in the second richest county in the country. In fact, the median income is over $94,000 per year. And a lot of that cash is coming from defense contractors…with a large subset of THAT being from companies who outsource for the CIA and other intelligence agencies. You may be familiar with “Booz Allen Hamilton” who is called in this article a “huge supplier of intelligence contracting.” They were a primary contractor for the officially defunct “Total Information Awareness Program” as well. Another contractor of interest to readers of this blog who is a big employer in Fairfax is Science Applications International Corporation. These are the folks who took over the remote viewing program, with help from our old friend Jolly West (from Jim Schnabel’s Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies. For more on West, you can check out this previous post.
Now, West died in 1999 and I have no idea if he ever even visited the Virginia branch of SAIC. I am merely giving you a sense of the flavor of the dark world of intel and defense contractors in which both Cho and Kennedy, were raised.
A final intelligence contractor of interest here is Northrup Grumman’s Intelligence Group. Not only does Northrup Grumman have a presence in Fairfax, they in fact have a “business partnership” with Cho’s alma mater, Westfield High. As you can see from that last wiki link, the school has a very high level of academic achievement, including even an Aerospace Science program. So it makes sense that a military and intelligence contractor would “partner” with them in order to help steer students into helpful directions and perhaps engage in outright recruitment. Perhaps this is how Cho’s sister ended up working for McNeil Technologies, another contractor who also has an intelligence division which provides services for clients including Northrup Grumman. She now is working on the “reconstruction” of Iraq in some unnamed capacity.
This is the world Cho grew up in. None of this proves anything about why, ultimately, Cho did what he did. He and Kennedy were both outsiders, as far as I can tell, even though Cho’s sister made it to Princeton and into a defense contractor herself. But here, with overt ties to an intelligence contractor and in the very heart of the military industrial complex, we have a not-so-secret school which has now produced two young men haunted by demons that only mass murder will quiet. With rumors of Satanism (Kennedy) and sexual abuse of children (Cho) and the uncomfortable recognition of both of these themes within that same military/intel complex, it’s time to have a longer look at these latest lone gunmen.
(Note, this is a draft. I do not have time to revise or edit until later but I wanted to put this up now. Comments on typos or inaccuracies are welcome.)
The Sanity Inspector said,
April 19, 2007 at 6:43 pm
None of this proves anything about why, ultimately, Cho did what he did.
So why write it, other than to gratify a resentment against “the military-industrial complex”?
Thanks for the backgrounder on the Kennedy kid, though. Must admit that was something I didn’t know.
C Dub said,
April 19, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Nice mention of Booz Allen Hamilton – they don’t get the attention they deserve, even in the non-mainstream media, considering they are the largest employer of former CIA & NSA directors and assistant directors. And, according to this Salon article http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/01/08/mcconnell/index.html : “Information Week reported that Booz Allen had more than 1,000 former intelligence officers on its staff.” and their website ’states that the Booz Allen team “employs more than 10,000 TS/SCI cleared personnel.”‘
Probably just one of those ‘coincidences’
Speaking of shooting sprees, did you know that Booz Allen set up one of their offices on the same floors (33 & 34) that a shooting spree had occurred on a few years before – the 101 California St shootings? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shootings As a result of which was passed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act banning the manufacture of 19 assault weapons?
Oh, probably just another one of those ‘coincidences’
the central scrutinizer said,
April 19, 2007 at 7:41 pm
why not write it? it couldnt be the most insane speculation about this guy to come out. does it not synch up damn near 1:1 with bowling for columbine?
nature abhors a vaccuum, sure
and why not vaccuum when bored?
C Dub said,
April 19, 2007 at 8:00 pm
fwiw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairfax_County%2C_Virginia
“The movie Donnie Darko is set in Fairfax County”
dreamsend said,
April 19, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Damnit…you beat me to the Darko reference. I was trying to remember if that was set in Fairfax or not…but that’s the EXACT vibe I’m talking about.
Sanity Inspector asked why did I write it?
One, it’s what I do. I write things.
Two, I didn’t claim to have answers but I do claim to have better questions.
Banta said,
April 19, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Very nice, DE. This is what I’ve been looking for (albeit, not very hard).
I love that the spin is slowly moving away from why there was such a delay between the first shooting and the email notifications to the students.
Radine! said,
April 19, 2007 at 10:24 pm
I’ve been dropping by and perusing some of this site since I heard you on Mark Levine’s Radio Inside Scoop on the HeadOnRadioNetwork .
Today I regained contact with a former co-worker that has been involved in research of this type as well. Have you read this from Project Censored http://projectcensored.org/ ?
The title may not seem related, but a quick check of the contents shows :
American Ruling Class 5
Neo-Conservatism 6
Global Dominance 9
Psychological War 10
Telsa and EMF 13
MK-ULTRA 17
Illegal Experimentation 19
The Scientists 20
Exposure of MKULTRA 22
EMF Weapons Research 24
Project Sheriff 27
Pulsed Energy Projectiles 27
Directed Acoustics 28
Neurological Technology 29
Implants 31 http://pdftohtml.markoer.org/pdf2html.php?url=http://projectcensored.org/newsflash/ElectromegnaticWeapons.pdf
As always…Thanks for encouraging THINKING !
Love & Light,
~~Radine!~~
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 19, 2007 at 11:24 pm
I listened to an interview today of some kids who knew Cho, and they commented several times how out-of-character Cho was in the videos from the kid they knew who didn’t speak to anyone. They just thought he was exceptionally shy. The difference, of course, could indicate the possibility of multiple personalities. Or it could just be the bride-at-the-wedding grandstanding–”my one and only chance to be in the spotlight”..
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:03 am
One thing that struck me about the material that Cho supplied to the tv station was the amount of narcissism at play. I think I’ll do a little googling and see if narcissism is connected to stalking in any way.
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:09 am
Looks like stalkers come in all sorts of flavors, including narcissistic.
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:10 am
http://tinyurl.com/
dreamsend said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:36 am
Cho had something of an alter named “Question Mark.” He claimed Question mark was his brother and called one of his roommates using that name denying it was him. Sometimes he signed his name that way. Maybe not an alter, but definitely some confusion about identity.
C Dub said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:40 am
I hate to say this, but I am surprised I haven’t seen any conspiracy theories regarding the fact that he was *23*, and that *33* people died (including himself).
dreamsend said,
April 20, 2007 at 12:46 am
33 people dying doesn’t have significance in that many others were injured and could just as easily have died. Unless you want to suggest paranormal intervention of some kind.
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 20, 2007 at 1:31 am
What I find REALLY suspicious is that the kid who wrote that drivel made it to his fourth year of college majoring in English, of all things.
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 20, 2007 at 1:32 am
What else was he majoring in?
jk said,
April 20, 2007 at 2:21 am
You said “Cho Seung-hui lost his mind. I think the public deserves to know who stole it from him. Cho gave us lots of hints, and probably a lot MORE hints remain among the pages not yet published by NBC.”
That’s the answer right there. He sent his garbage to NBC because he knows that the putrid television news talking heads agree with his moronic opinion that being rich means you deserve to die. Even though they themselves are rich, they are also good liberal brainwashed nazis and fully believe themselves to deserve death for being white if not rich. He knew they would play his propaganda videos because he was merely mimicking their propaganda. NBC created this monster and they are trying to create another one by playing his propaganda video over and over. All the victims’ families should join together in a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against NBC for wrongful death.
dude h said,
April 20, 2007 at 2:58 am
say what?
daniel said,
April 20, 2007 at 3:12 am
Nice post, I knew there’d be strange high school ties but hadn’t found them myself.
Similar to the “Question mark” thing. One MSM article I read quoted his roommate (without elaborating) as saying that he may have had an imaginary girlfriend named “Jelly”… who was a supermodel…
WRH posted a link to a myspace post apparently from midnight 7 hours before the shooting by someone who hopes and expects to be charged as an accomplice. I have no idea if its legit.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=431_1176758456
Banta said,
April 20, 2007 at 3:44 am
Post 16 might be the best post ever here. Or the worst. I can’t tell.
C Dub said,
April 20, 2007 at 4:07 am
Banta – it can be both at the same time – Schrödinger’s Comment
dreamsend said,
April 20, 2007 at 11:13 am
NBC hates the rich? No.
But the use of those images as propaganda….I would say yes. The way NBC and then all the other stations have kept those images in front of us…I keep thinking Clockwork Orange.
WoodyWoodman said,
April 20, 2007 at 2:14 pm
A local radio station got an interview with Cho’s academia advisor. While constrained from actually revealing details about Cho, he made an interesting general comment.
Foreign nationals, and first generation immigrants from the indo-chinese region are usually under pressure from their family to get ‘technical’ degrees. He suggested that someone like Cho might have flunked out of a more technical major and had to switch. He suggested that this might explain how someone who writes so poorly would end up as an english major. Interesting, but I wouldn’t speculate on it’s relevance.
This Cho character sounds very much like a fellow I knew in high school, who also sounded like Napolean Dynamite. He was small, not too bright and lived, as far as I could tell, entirely inside his own head. Not that I blame him, the shitheaded farmboy jocks would swipe at him out of reflex, every class change was like a mini-gauntlet for him. I used to see him in the library working on curiously elaborate diagrams of what he called ‘particle beamers’ . Being a shitheaded farmboy nerd I would try to engage him him in discussions, which usually degenerated into me trying to demonstrate how impractical such devices were or how difficult they were to be realized. I though at the time that I was just trying to reach the guy on a topic he was interested in but it was still a shitty way of doing it. I knew this guy through grade school and high school and the one thing that was abundently clear was that if he had his particle beamer he would gleefully scour all organic life from from Essex High including those who were sympathetic to his plight.
Novanglus said,
April 20, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Westfield, like Columbine, it’s a huge new ex-urban sausage factory of a high school. Students who don’t find a group identity through sports or theater or other activities get lost in the shuffle. Those with simmering emotional problems go unnoticed until its too late. The lucky ones are those that get addicted to something, get arrested, and get treatment. The rest are time bombs in our communities.
the central scrutinizer said,
April 20, 2007 at 5:18 pm
so westfield is like a bomb factory? kinda like how their dads all work for bomb factories?
11:11 said,
April 20, 2007 at 8:16 pm
No time to read the comments. DE and all, look at this thread:
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ll_chat&Number=295424943&t=-1
the central scrutinizer said,
April 20, 2007 at 9:21 pm
hey someone just mentioned that SAIC was the security contractor for NASA JSC. *capital hmmm*
dreamsend said,
April 20, 2007 at 10:34 pm
That isn’t Cho in that picture…or at least I see no evidence that it is. Name on the uniform is Hu. I think he’s been messed with…but not as in “put in uniform and trained” kinda thing. I think of the DC sniper…with the kid pulling the trigger and the adult “mentoring” his young assassin. I think there was someone playing a similar role in Columbine…
I wonder if his diatribe had any names in it. If so, we’ll never hear them, I’m sure, for libel reasons. I don’t know if “Novanglus” lives in Fairfax, but he describes well the overall atmosphere, I think. Noticing the “success” of Cho’s sister, I know that she, at least, garnered some attention from well connected people.
C Dub said,
April 21, 2007 at 12:18 am
cs & de – that is some bad photoshopping of Cho’s head into the picture
Secrets of School Murders « WHY ORGANIC said,
April 21, 2007 at 2:25 am
[...] Apr 21st, 2007 by slivermoon22 Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School « Dream’s End [...]
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 2:30 am
Secrets of School Murders « WHY ORGANIC said,
April 21, 2007 at 2:25 am
[…] Apr 21st, 2007 by slivermoon22 Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School « Dream’s End […]
Um, WTF???
wonderer in the wilderness said,
April 21, 2007 at 2:42 am
~ahem~ “……The 11:11 activation point is ancient, and has likely reactivated at several points throughout history. The meaning is Multi-Dimensional. Additionally, continued sightings of 11:11 will have unique meaning at certain points along your personal journey. It’s a giant buzz of past, present and future, configured handily by the fallen eight (8). I will soon share with you what I learned recently about one of the major meanings of 11:11. It is important for people to know that they are not losing their minds.
People seeing 11:11 do have a unique calling. They likely know this already, they just don’t know how to define it. Again, a gem is multi-faceted, and so it is with 11:11. A strong desire, or need to solidify meaning will not serve you. Ask to be guided and you will be, but understand that the Greatest Mysteries of 11:11 tend to drip, drip, drip into your personal awareness, as other events in your life have aligned properly. There is a plan in place. Since no one has your spreadsheet of Divine Timing, no one can answer the biggest questions of all. Be patient.
A book I am currently working on, yet unnamed, stems from my work on the 11:11 phenomenon, which began in early 2005, mostly. It was on the date of November, 11, 2005 (11-11-11) that I opened a online discussion list for others who resonated with 11:11. On the eve of 11-11-11, we gathered together, via conference call, and engaged in sacred group prayer. It was a very powerful event that lasted roughly two hours. During the evening of that night, I experienced intense energy and dreams. I wrote about it in my journal and shared it the next day with the list members. Several other list members also experienced noteworthy events on that evening, and since then. Seems that the 11-11-11 Gateway was very powerful and even more meaningful, but it would be two and half years, before I could come to learn so much more, and have some answers that must be shared with the public at large, despite the risk I take in alienating family, friends, and neighbors………..”
Johnny Boy said,
April 21, 2007 at 3:02 am
I believe that there is more than a strong suggestion that Cho was sexually abused and probably violently. I have worked with many sexually abused children and have seen in many that something evil in them seems to be created the moment a part of their soul dies after the trauma of the abuse and the realization that someone they know, love or even trust has “violated” their “soul”. When Cho asked if “you” have ever been spat on in the face or had “garbage” shoved down your throat- this sends up the sexual abuse flag to me. I believe his ranting to “you” does not mean the mass or population but a single being that he is too ashamed to name. I could be wrong but my gut won’t let me move past the fact that the media is not picking up on what many bloggers and etc… are seeing— this man (boy) was past hurting and shame. He appears to be seeking for someone to see what possible happened to him without coming out and saying- I was raped, or severely sexually abused or etc…. I am sick of the media calling him human garbage, etc… Yes he was sick, disturbed and mentally ill and what he did was so VERY wrong- but was he was not born this way- something or possibly, someone made him this way. This is merely my opinion.
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 4:07 am
LOL, wanderer. Yikes!
DE, is there any way I can change my user name?
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 4:12 am
I’m pretty much convinced that Cho was a trauma induced mind controlled MPD assassin, created especially for what he did. Ritual occult sexual abuse is integral to that. It’s possible that a priest was involed. He did mention priests.
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 4:40 am
A refresher from the good doctor:
quote:
A document entitled, “Hypnotic Experimentation and Research, 10 February 1954” [24] describes a simulation experiment of relevance to the creation of Manchurian Candidate assassins: “Miss [whited out] was then instructed (having previously expressed a fear of firearms) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken miss [whited out] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep), and failing this, she would pick up a pistol nearby and fire it at Miss [whited out]. She was instructed that her rage would be so great that she would not hesitate to “kill” [whited out] for failing to awaken. Miss [whited out] carried out these suggestions to the letter including firing the (unloaded) gun at [whited out] and then proceeding to fall into a deep sleep. After proper suggestions were made, both were awakened and expressed complete amnesia for the entire sequence. Miss [whited out] was again handed the gun, which she refused (in an awakened state) to pick up or accept form the operator. She expressed absolute denial that the foregoing sequence had happened.”
—BLUEBIRD: Deliberate Creation of Multiple Personality by Psychiatrists by Colin A. Ross MD (p. 36, 37)
———————————————————- ———————-
In another selection from this book, two women similarly planted a bomb:
———————————————————- ———————-
quote:
In an experiment described in a document entitled “SI and H experimentation [16] (25 September 1951)”, two female subjects took part in an exercise involving the planting of a bomb. Both subjects performed perfectly and were fully amnesic for the exercise: “[Whited out] was instructed that upon awakening, she would proceed to [whited out] room where she would wait at the desk for a telephone call. Upon receiving the call, a person known as “Jim” would engage her in normal conversation. During the course of the conversation, this individual would mention a code word. When she heard this code word, she would pass into a SI trance state, but would not close her eyes and remain perfectly normal and continue the telephone conversation. (BLUEBIRD, p. 37)
She was told that upon conclusion of the telephone conversation, she would then carry out instructions: [Whited out] was shown an electric timing device. She was informed that this device was a bomb, and then instructed how to set the device. After [whited out] learned how to set and attach the device, she was told to take the timing device which was in a briefcase, and proceed to the ladies room. In the ladies room, she would be met by a girl whom she had never seen who would identify herself by the code word “New York.” [whited out] was then to show this individual how to attach and set the timing device and further instructions would be given that the timing device was to be carried in the briefcase to [whited out] room, placed in the nearest empty electric-light plug and concealed in the bottom, left-hand drawer of [whited out] desk, with the device set for 82 seconds and turned on.” (BLUEBIRD, p. 37, 38)
The BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE materials establish conclusively that full Manchurian Candidates were created and tested successfully by physicians with TOP SECRET clearance from the CIA. (BLUEBIRD, p. 61)
benodem said,
April 21, 2007 at 5:53 am
oldboy was imprisoned for 15 years , seung-hui came to the US 15 years ago , being “imprisoned” by his inability to speak properly or being molested by his grand-father who now calles him son-of-a-whore,thereby being thrown in a cage of hurt. his 2005 screening says he was not taking medicamentation then , but maybe his treatment thereafter was popping some prozac , which recharged his energy, just without proper therapy just gave enough energy to rage against the ones he projected his hurt upon: people, who made fun of him not being able to articulate himself , people , who were successful ,, something he would never be (which is an explanation he didn t aim for fellow english majors, as they are obviously not successful) . This put together with the asians man need always to be better than the caucasian men , there you go : highest fragging amok guy with a poetic vein , regarding how he picked his name
http://www.google.de/books?vid=ISBN1410217256&id=0wvtFPz03GsC&pg=PA505&lpg=PA505&ots=AGP8GK6ZDB&dq=ishmael+ax&sig=nFBwiWn9cCoJ9KGJ0dIAyDp2V4E
…i know,free speculation can be kind of ugly,,,sorry grandpa,,but calling ismail a son of a whore makes you suspicious
benodem said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:06 am
other idea is that this is the first step to take mind control onto the campuses , by making people agree to systematically monitor 2.0 content for signs of mental aberration , for means of security and means of looking for intellectual heretics. to massage the public mind in the right direction cho , who originally was a sophisticated answer to low-tech suicide bombers,was triggered .
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 1:53 pm
With severe sexual abuse, sometimes alter personalities are created. What seems to happen is that alter personalities are sort of “assigned” roles of handling various emotional states. I have personal experience with this with a loved one as well as research. It is pretty common to have a “rage” alter, who has all the anger assigned to him or her. Sometimes named Rage or having a demon name or named Satan or something similar, it doesn’t mean actual possession but just the part that holds all the anger. I’ve been assaulted by “Rage” before and even threatened with a knife by this person’s alter.
I totally agree that Cho was very likely sexually abused…the plays spell it out very overtly although in “fictionalized” form.
Oh, one technical note. When another blog links to this one, the phrase will often show up as a post in comments. that’s what “why Organic’s” post is about and I don’t know how to turn that “feature” off.
sablekennedy said,
April 21, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Wow…thanks for the background on yet another infamous Kennedy. =) It’s very interesting that two killers, graduating within 2 years of each other, came out of the same high school. This needs to get some attention in the investigation or, if possible, the media.
However, all of these “mind control” theories seem highly unlikely to me. I personally think the CIA, DIA, etc learned their lesson in the 50s and 60s. Mind control is far too unpredictable. Additionally, Virginia Tech is not a very politically active campus, so if, as benodem suggested, an intelligence agency wanted to watch a school, why wouldn’t they pick American University (#1 most politically active campus in the country), or Georgetown University, which has one of the highest ratios of Muslim students (not that I’m suggesting that all terrorists are Muslims or all Muslims are terrorists by ANY means)? Why would the CIA/DIA want to kill college students anyway? Usually, when someone who has a terrorist connection / terrorist sympathies is found, that person is questioned for months or years: that information is far more useful than a corpse.
I think that Cho was sexually abused (and perhaps Kennedy was, too – both by a teacher?) as should be made fairly evident by his writings. As someone else has mentioned, sexual abuse can cause the victim to create an alter ego (or several). Additionally, Cho was autistic but his mother apparently did not seek help because he was getting good grades. He would, therefore, not be very effective at dealing with stressful situations (like every passing minute of college: imagine the stress of knowing your parents are paying $30,000/year for you to attend this school and succeed in the post-graduate world, which is particularly difficult for English majors — there are very few high-paying careers for English majors). Untreated autistic people have been known to undervalue human relationships and even human life. So, in order to deal with his memories of sexual abuse, he killed people who he associated with school (which he associated with the sexual abuse). This, to me, is far more likely than the idea that the CIA is training college students to be assassins.
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 5:09 pm
DE, how can I change my user name?
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 5:29 pm
I don’t think you have to register, do you? If you are registered, just click “log off” and then it will ask for a username. Pick a new one.
sablekennedy, where did you hear Cho was autistic? And was it autism or Asberger’s?
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 5:54 pm
“This, to me, is far more likely than the idea that the CIA is training college students to be assassins.”
I might agree with you, but then what to make of the delayed email “warnings”? Obviously, none of this proves it by itself, but taken collectively, it seems like someone wanted this incident to happen (or at least, was took advantage of a developing situation).
Additionally, this incident cannot be taken in isolation. Look at Columbine, look at the DC sniper, look at practically ANY mass murder spree and you see the same connections and themes popping up over and over again. I don’t think someone should ignore those “coincidences”.
C Dub said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:23 pm
DE – ‘and I don’t know how to turn that “feature” off.’
Go to Admin / Options / Discussion / and then uncheck “Allow link notifications from other Weblogs (pingbacks and trackbacks.)” it should be the second option on that screen
(unless WordPress has recently updated their software, in which case it might be anywhere or say anything.)
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:24 pm
NYT today
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/21/us/21guns.html?th&emc=th
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:28 pm
ahem~ “……The 11:11 activation point is ancient, and has likely reactivated at several points throughout history. The meaning is Multi-Dimensional. Additionally, continued sightings of 11:11 will have unique meaning at certain points along your personal journey. It’s a giant buzz of past, present and future, configured handily by the fallen eight (8). I will soon share with you what I learned recently about one of the major meanings of 11:11. It is important for people to know that they are not losing their minds.
***********************
Thanks for leaving my work here, but would appreciate a link back to my blog.
It’s all good though.
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Secrets of School Murders « WHY ORGANIC said,
April 21, 2007 at 2:25 am
[…] Apr 21st, 2007 by slivermoon22 Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School « Dream’s End […]
Um, WTF???
**************************
Uh TF is that I wanted to send my audience here to read the info. It’s just the link.
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:34 pm
33 people dying doesn’t have significance in that many others were injured and could just as easily have died. Unless you want to suggest paranormal intervention of some kind.
*****************************
33 is a very significant number, and so is 23.
Please remember that the Illuminati (who runs things around here) exists for the number 33. As in 33rd degree. Highest level of freemasonary. These are the big guys. These are the ones pulling the strings.
Jesus was 33 when he was killed.
23 the Movie is coming soon.
2012 = 5
23 = 5
The Key = 5
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:16 pm
slivermoon, I don’t mean to attack you, but I want to know… how on earth can you put ANY stock in that number crap? I’m asking seriously, because I want to know. Seems to me that you could add up any combination of numbers to become almost anything.
Like I’ve posted earlier in another thread, my birthday two years ago was 5/5/5. What does that mean about me? Should I expect to ascend sometime soon?
Jeez, that came out snarkier than I intended…
sablekennedy said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Sorry, logged off for a bit.
Today’s Boston Globe has an article stating that Cho’s aunt has said that Cho was autistic but his mother (whose name is Kim, I believe, although that may be the aunt’s name), did not do much about it because he was getting good grades.
The DC sniper killed an FBI agent (or was it an ex-FBI agent? For some reason that stuck in my head). While the CIA and FBI have not historically gotten on very well, they’ve never resorted to blows.
As a current high school student (senior), I can tell you that there are two students at my school who I suspect to be capable of mimicking Columbine. They have been teased mercilessly for the past 14 years, play violent games and one of them writes disturbing short stories, usually about zombies. The social hierarchy and the cruelty with which today’s children treat each other have led many members of my generation to feel helpless, useless and worthless – and then angry; furiously angry. It’s human nature to hope that there’s something else to blame; our self-conscious remembers that time we teased/pushed/TPed that poor kid and wants to shift the blame elsewhere: it’s just too uncomfortable for us to think that what we sometimes see as harmless teasing leads to bloodshed and misery.
What it comes down to is that CIA operatives and agents have children, too. These children will one day attend college. As Virginia Tech is so close to the CIA headquarters, it is reasonable to suspect that some of their children will, did, or do attend VATech. Many CIA operatives and agents (and NSA agents – the NSA is the largest employer of mathematicians in the world and employs thousands of computer scientists) may have attended Virginia Tech; the CIA is always searching for physicists, computer scientists and engineers. Why would they risk their children’s lives, the safety of their future employees, or attack their alma mater? Additionally, how could they possibly keep it a secret? The revelation of their LSD experiments was damaging enough. If this ever leaked (and it would: the CIA employees thousands of Americans who have children in college; they would object to this type of program and, if their objections received no response, they would certainly go to the media), I have no doubt that the CIA would be dissolved.
In any case, all of this comes down to WHY. What would ever cause a national intelligence agency to train a college student at one of the nation’s most competitive universities, a university which could also supply hundreds of CIA employees each year, to kill his fellow students? In my mind, it just would not happen.
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:45 pm
“The DC sniper killed an FBI agent (or was it an ex-FBI agent? For some reason that stuck in my head). While the CIA and FBI have not historically gotten on very well, they’ve never resorted to blows.”
The woman you’re thinking of was Linda Franklin, a “counter-terrorism” expert with the FBI. Just because the CIA could have killed one FBI agent, doesn’t mean that it’s similar to the FBI declaring war on the CIA. Franklin could have been killed simply for something that she knew. Furthermore, I don’t think anyone has said here that it was CIA who was necessarily behind any of this. There are many three letter organizations, you know.
I suggest reading Dave McGowan’s wonderful synopsis of the sniper trial.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/
Starts with newsletter #45.
“As a current high school student (senior), I can tell you that there are two students at my school who I suspect to be capable of mimicking Columbine.”
I don’t doubt it. What’s striking about Columbine is many of the early reports of more than two shooters, which were quickly ignored afterwards, as the same as the two emails in the VT shootings.
“What it comes down to is that CIA operatives and agents have children, too.”
A lot can be justified when it comes to what one thinks is a “greater good.”
“The revelation of their LSD experiments was damaging enough. If this ever leaked (and it would: the CIA employees thousands of Americans who have children in college; they would object to this type of program and, if their objections received no response, they would certainly go to the media), I have no doubt that the CIA would be dissolved.”
What makes you think that everyone at the CIA is privy to everything that’s going on in the organization? There’s different levels of classifications, different areas of research going on at once. Certainly, some projects are highly classified.
As for the CIA being dissolved and the media doing something about anything (as if the media wasn’t basically an intelligence apparatus anyway, and that is where I imagine our opinions differ), I’m too cynical to believe that.
“What would ever cause a national intelligence agency to train a college student at one of the nation’s most competitive universities, a university which could also supply hundreds of CIA employees each year, to kill his fellow students?”
I don’t think that the purpose would necessarily have to be decided upon at the time someone was programmed. Program a bunch of people as children, you know, just in case!
As for why, I think that will become more apparent as time goes on. But the key points are increased fear among the population (as well as towards a certain ethnicity, although I’m completely speculating on that point) and reason to implement even more restrictive security protocols, especially on college campuses, all the while ignoring that if the students had been alerted in the first place in a reasonable amount of time and in a reasonable way, much of this tragedy could have probably been avoided.
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:49 pm
silvermoon, please forgive my paranioa, lol. When I clicked on that blog link, a little box with my user name and private email popped up, and it freaked me out! I was thinking how the hell did this blog register me. Now, I realize it’s because I logged in here, and the info went to WordPress. My apologies.
I’m a semi woo-woo, and find the number stuff interesting, though I think people get carried away with it. I DO think the occultists are into that shit, so they may really choose dates for their deeds, according to some secret occult beliefs.
I’m going to log off, and ditch this user name. I like the looks of it, but I don’t want to be associated with any creepy stuff.
11:11 said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Damn. There’s no place to log out. *cues up Hotel California*
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Damn, I think my reply to sablekennedy is caught up in the filter. This is basically a test.
11:11, or whatever you want to be called now, how come you even have a username? Do you have a blog on wordpress or something? The only thing mine shows above the comment box is a space where I can enter any name I want and then my email.
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Good points, sabinakennedy. If you go backward on my blogs you’ll see that there’s a lot more to MKULTRA than just a few LSD experiments. I relied only on documents which were declassified. Who knows what else is there.
But that’s not to say that Cho was simply a Manchurian candidate programmed to kill, so to speak. But I don’t rule it out, and recommend, at the risk of “corrupting” a promising young mind, the book “Programmed to Kill” by Dave McGowan. You’ll see how many of the modern, so-called serial killers were not, in fact, always random in the targets they picked…and simply covered up with other, “joy killings” which were more random in nature. I just saw the film “Zodiac” and was interested in a few things that actually made it into the film. One was that the killer was military. Secondly, while most of the killings were of young couples or women, one killing was of a taxi driver who was asked to take Zodiac right to the “Presidio” an army base with a very, very troubled history, including allegations (with a great deal of evidence) of child sexual abuse in their daycare, to Satanic ceremonies. They even have their own resident Satanist there, Michael Aquino. Aquino happened to be in the psychological warfare department.
(if you want more on that…start here: http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/aquino01.htm)
The recently caught “BTK” killer is another example. His first victim, the only male, was not only airforce but told his family he had worked for the CIA and was concerned for his life. Just a couple weeks before he was killed, the electricity went out on his block and he gathered his family in the basement and armed himself till he realized it wasn’t just his house.
There are many examples of this. Was some professor in that group who were murdered a target? I have no idea. Maybe Cho just snapped and if so, I am still interested in what sounds to me his allegations that there was some organized sexual abuse at a school he was attending at some point.
And the “not so secret school” title refers to the various ways I think intel types “steer” promising kids into military/intel and defense research work. This is sometimes above board but sometimes sneakier. Anecdotally, I hear stories of very gifted kids being put into programs and having tests run on them and other questionable things in addition to “gifted” education enrichment or whatever. So having Northrup Grumman Intelligence Group “partnering” with the school is troubling, but the full reasons for that haven’t been made clear in this one post. I’ll be exploring this “secret school” idea more fully in future posts. But this is why I was interested in the fact that Cho’s sister seemed to have come into contact with well connected folks to get work as a contract agent for the State Department.
Anyway, don’t take my word…you seem to have an excellent mind and if you’ll explore carefully (there’s a lot of b.s. on the internet that supports what I’m saying but is nevertheless b.s. that is exaggerated or just made up) you’ll start to see some patterns.
But it gets harder when the privacy rights of dead murderers seem to trump those of living people hoping to prevent future such shootings. This from CNN:
Some relatives of the Columbine victims haven’t been pleased with federal Judge Lewis Babcock’s decision this month to seal for 20 years the testimony of Harris’ and Klebold’s parents about the boys’ home lives. They said they feel the information could help prevent future school rampages.
“I don’t think you can stop every crazy person. But some of the things Babcock locked up show what these crazy kids did,” said Don Fleming, whose 16-year-old daughter, Kelly, was killed in the attack. “It’s no use to anybody if it is locked up.
“If society knew, it could possibly prevent future shootings,” Fleming said. “We’re finding out that everything that the latest killer did is similar to what Klebold and Harris did.”
Other relatives of the Columbine victims expressed similar displeasure over Babcock’s decision.
“How much more blood must be spilled?” said Brian Rohrbough, who lost his 15-year-old son, Danny.
Speaking to reporters in Golden, Rohrbough called on the Jefferson County sheriff, the Columbine principal and Babcock to release all information on the killings immediately.
Victim’s father urges Virginia Tech to avoid secrecy
Cho Seung-Hui, who killed at least 30 people on the Virginia Tech campus on Monday before taking his own life, called Harris and Klebold “martyrs” in a videotape he mailed to NBC that was broadcast Wednesday.
Michael Shoels, father of Columbine victim Isaiah Shoels, was on the Virginia Tech campus Friday to urge school officials there to avoid secrecy and keep families informed during the investigation.
“I don’t want them to get caught up in what we got caught up in Colorado,” he said. “They need to let these parents know that they are going to do whatever they can to get to the bottom of this.”
That may not only prevent some lawsuits, but it will help other schools learn and change, he said.
“The child that killed their children, he’s dead also. There’s no prosecution here. So why not open up and let it be a lesson to everyone?” he said.
In the Columbine records ruling, Babcock cited a need for confidentiality and concerns that releasing the testimony from the Columbine killers’ parents could encourage copycat crimes.
Many in this suburb of Denver think the decision was a mistake.
“Are the people of Virginia going to wait 20 years?” said Dawn Anna, whose 18-year-old daughter, Lauren, was killed at Columbine.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/20/columbine.anniv.ap/index.html
Does that reasoning seem sound to you, that not releasing the information would lead to copycats? Guess that didn’t work out.
Meanwhile, you noticed my example of the DC snipers. I don’t claim to know the motive, though your noticing of the FBI agent who was shot was sharp. However, what do you imagine the point was of the snipers’ sending a note to the sheriff insisting that he publicly say the phrase “We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose”? Well, if it were some sort of hypnotic suggestion, I’d expect the behavior of the snipers to change at that moment. Indeed, a few hours after the sheriff uttered that odd phrase, the snipers were found asleep in their vehicle. Meanwhile, you have an older man with a military background completely fucking with the mind of the young shooter. I think everyone would agree that there was some degree of “mind control” there…but how deep it goes is the only question. And since they were BOTH asleep in the car, it suggests someone else was involved as well.
Back to Cho…I get your comments about kids who are bullied and picked on. But if we take Columbine as an example, I’d say at the very least those kids were pulled into a circle of white nationalist types, even if you ignore all the discrepancies in the official story. (After all, how many bombs did those guys bring in that morning?) There were sightings of an older male during the shootings who was never caught. So think about this: if some bad guy, government connected or not, wanted to make trouble on the level of a Columbine, would he not turn to just those very same troubled and picked on youth? Would he not push them in that violent direction? I know that is not “proof”…believe me I’m aware of the low standards of proof out there for this sort of thing that is so common…but it does show how someone like Cho, abused and ostracized and constantly humiliated might come to the attention of someone wanting to do such things. And my point about Westfield is that, IF there was someone intel related looking to do something just like that, they would be well aware of Mr. Cho.
By the way, Cho mentioned John Lennon in one of his plays. Mark David Chapman, Lennon’s assassin, was similar to Cho. We also know for a fact that Chapman had alter personalities who directed his violence. Or think Sirhan Sirhan, who had no memory of killing RFK…amnesia accepted by all sides as genuine and considered to have engaged in “self-hypnosis”.
This stuff happens. I wish I had a surefire way to know truly “random” violence from that which is a result from various kinds of manipulation, but I don’t.
By the way, Cho also called the stepfather in his play, Richard McBeef, a “Catholic” because of the pedophilia. That’s obviously been in the news, but I noticed that in the interview with his relatives in S.K. they showed a Catholic service there. Only about 7% of S. Koreans are Catholic, Wiki informs me. Unfortunately, we know that abuse of children in the Catholic Church has been pretty widespread. Just another aspect to think about.
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 10:33 pm
I make this generic and brief to all.
It’s all about numbers. I don’t care what you think. I love you anyway.
I do my own thing, and I don’t give a rat’s rip if you agree or judge me.
I don’t have the time to teah you about numbers. You couldn’t afford me anyway.
But, I am not evil, and I am well aware of the energy that rules this plane, and it ain’t Divine Love. Go read my blog and ponder.
For those who know nothing about numbers, you likely no knowing about numbers.
Educate yourself. There are tons of good books at the Library. Go get:
Descates’ Secret Notebook, and some beer, and go crazy.
Go read some of Stephen Hawking, Fred Alan Wolf, Leon Ledbetter. Some science.
But, you should consider your judgements of things you obviously know little about. Why? Because, we might – and I say MIGHT be on the same side.
These days, of smoke and mirrors, it’s hard to tell.
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 10:42 pm
11:11
No problem whatsoever. I understand.
I am very active in Blogsville. I post links like crazy. I see someting, I like it, I post it.
Thanks for the apology.
I think Dreamsend is on to something here. As I think I said here, I felt from the beginning this incident smelled.
I am not a double agent. And, I am not an agent’s double.
LOL
slivermoon22 said,
April 21, 2007 at 10:44 pm
By the way, if you want some real worthy info, please go to this link and print out all 23 pages.
http://www.peterdavidbeter.com/docs/all/dbeye.html
Read it carefully and be amazed.
If this man can’t get some respect, no one can.
This has been going on forever folks.
You would also be well served to subscribe to http://www.wanttoknow.info
See the menu and read all the stuff. All of it.
Ishmael said,
April 21, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Hey everyone – please take a look at my article ” ‘Ismail Ax’ And The Latest Mind-Controlled Assassin” at:
http://www.rense.com/general76/isma.htm
For anyone wanting to know more about mind control I strongly urge you to read Fritz Springmeier’s books:
“The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave”
http://www.whale.to/b/sp/for1.html
“Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula”
http://www.whale.to/b/sp/deep.html
Mr. Springmeier was apparently framed for bringing this and other information to the public and thrown in jail, where he is today.
healtheland said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Wow. I am convinced that this fellow was troubled by demons. But at this time, all of the information is evidence of manifestation of demonic activity, not how they entered. For instance, his fascination with “Oldboy” was almost certainly because of the evil spirits of murder, violence, anger, rage, hate, etc. were already active. Evil spirits almost certainly were let into this person when he was a very small child. What needs to be found out is how and why. My guess is that we are not going to get any help on this from his parents, but the best source of information on this will be his older sister, and that is if she remembers what happened to her now deceased brother and is willing to talk about it. Now do not get me wrong, video games, movies, graphic Internet sites, pornography, etc. can cause people to become demonized, but more often they are scapegoats for pre – existing demonic indwelling that are sought out because the person is already demonized. About the only thing that can cause a person who is not already troubled with demons to get into this person’s state is going hardcore into the occult and witchcraft (I am not talking about the sanitized “earth mother worship” pagan wicca but actual witchcraft, a spiritist art that conjures up and uses demons to control people and to acquire things for you) and similar. Usually when a person in his teens and twenties degrades into this condition, it is because of something that happened to them during childhood.
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:39 pm
“I don’t have the time to teah you about numbers. You couldn’t afford me anyway.”
That’s lovely.
“But, you should consider your judgements of things you obviously know little about.”
I hope that wasn’t directed at me, because if so, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
But hey, thanks for the cryptic message without addressing my question.
DE, your latest post has seem to have brought a different crowd to here. Not that I’m wanting to pass judgment on those who are just joining in (in fact, I think a lot of the topics being presented, the points raised in 56 in particular, in my opinion have some merit), but it would disappoint me if the discussion here changed in tone from relative facts to mysticism.
Of course, that’s only my opinion and I’m in a foul mood today, but I guess I’ll post this anyway!
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Apologies to all. I haven’t sorted out why but sometimes I can check out the spam caught by the spam filter and sometimes I don’t seem able to. I just got in and found lots of comments caught in the filter. Please note that if you include links it gets “awaiting moderation.” I’ll see that, but if you include lots of links, it goes straight to spam and I have to stumble on it as I look through all the actual spam.
Ishmael, I allowed your link but not the whole article. It’s too long. I wouldn’t make too much of the “ismail” line in that computer code. That sounds like a typical variable name in computer programming. I.e. if you want to check to see if a user is valid, you might name a variable “isvalid”. I couldn’t make heads or tails of the rest of your article.
Anyway, sorry if comments are being lost. It’s not on purpose…we have a bit more traffic than usual today.
Also, keep in mind that I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of these comments, especially the ones positing a Jewish world conspiracy, but I don’t have time to individually check all the links. If anyone finds anything too objectionable, please let me know. Some of this garbage is already being linked to.
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Oops, I meant post 60, but post 56 has some elements that has merit as well.
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:44 pm
DE, is a post of mine floating around in there somewhere? It’s not really important, as you basically replied to sablekennedy in the same basic fashion that I did, but I am curious what happened to the thing. When I tried to post it again, it said that I had already posted it.
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Yes, Banta…many new folks. As for the number 33, it does have significance. But my point is that more than 33 people were seriously shot…so how did he know how many of those would die? That’s why I dismiss the numbers.
Note that posts have gotten “resurrected” above as I check spam filters.
dreamsend said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:49 pm
I think it’s up there now. By the way, this post got linked at Rense. Hence our new visitors. I’d encourage anyone coming here from Rense to check my early posts. You will find no sympathy for the “Jews rule the world” theme that Rense promotes. I’ve hashed this out with the web guy there and had another link to one of my stories removed. However, I told them they could link only..not reprint…in hopes that his readers might stumble on some of my other stuff that contradicts Rense’s Larouchian spin.
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Not clog this up, but I just took a look at the wiki for Dr. Peter Beter.
A couple highlights:
“In September 1974 Dr. Beter acquired a new distinction as “the man who opened Fort Knox.” The previous April Dr. Beter had charged in congressional testimony that the legendary U.S. Bullion Depository at Fort Knox had been looted of America’s monetary gold hoard allegedly stored there.”
I’ve heard this several times, didn’t realize it was Beter who started this claim.
“Other Claims
Powerful figures like David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger and Jimmy Carter are dead and that they are actually organic robotoids.”
Well, duh!
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:56 pm
“As for the number 33, it does have significance. But my point is that more than 33 people were seriously shot…so how did he know how many of those would die? That’s why I dismiss the numbers.”
That’s not the significance that I think some are claiming. I agree that the number 33 has meaning, but of an entirely humanly kind. Some would claim that it’s the nature of the universe that 33 died in that, stamping it with the intent of evil, or whatever you’d like to call it.
Seems like we’re sort of back to the faith discussion that was had a few weeks ago.
I see my post up there now… this spam filter is very confusing stuff.
Top Posts « WordPress.com said,
April 21, 2007 at 11:58 pm
[...] Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School [image] Cho Seung-hui lost his mind. I think the public deserves to know who stole it from him. Cho gave us lots of […] [...]
Annie Baker said,
April 22, 2007 at 12:02 am
My view is that Cho was bi-polar who had been given the wrong anti-depresssants which fueld his manic phase into a homicidal psychosis. If you are interested in environmental causes, perhaps you should also look at the environment in the school to see if there were any reports of toxic mold. Certain toxic molds can have psychotic effects on sensitive individuals, or individuals who already have a genetic pre-disposition to mania.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 12:24 am
I agree about toxic molds, but I’m gonna have to go with the sexual abuse angle, given his own writings. Free lifetime membership to this blog for the first link to a mainstream article interviewing officials at Westfield High School. Shouldn’t they be doing some of that “re-evaluating” everyone is doing these days? I mean TWO mass killers in two years to come from that school and both having been picked on and ostracized. After all that media attention to bullying after Columbine…where’s the press interest in this angle? I got ALL of my info in my post in less than two hours research on the internet. It’s just frustrating that global warming seems to have made journalists extinct.
Noxia said,
April 22, 2007 at 12:34 am
When I read that Blacksburg’s a part of the Milt/Indus/Cia complex and particular VTech has funding and recruiting going on by defense contractors and Darpa and CIA types I immediately thought of what I had read about Littleton Colorado and how it is also a heart of the CIA/defense contractors/security/arms manufacturers, and also particularly how steeped in Christian fundamentalism and abstinence and pro life. Cho looked up to the Columbine shooters who were also drug addled and had had therapy/counseling. Anybody else see a connection here. I wasn’t aware of the Kennedy kid from the same school as Cho but it is just more confirmation that these young men are signs of government mind control program using teachers, counselors, therapist, drug therapy especially antidepressants and who knows what else to fuck with young men’s heads and produce violence on cue. Whenever the government needs a news diversion and hysteria about gun control etc another one will show up and take over the news. Two cities tied heavily into the government/defense/intelligence secretive world. What about Gonzoles and Rove and the Iraq and Iran? Forget them. We’ve got to watch the news about the latest mass school (or mall, or NASA, or whereever) shooting. Good luck America, we’re gonna need it.
Merlin said,
April 22, 2007 at 12:54 am
I think if you are truly seeking the truth, you need to explore the histories of the first two people who were killed. Therein lies the secret.
Anonymous said,
April 22, 2007 at 12:56 am
I was interested to see that you included SAIC in this article. A little known fact about SAIC is at the time of the Anthrax attacks they were bidding on a contract to build an Anthrax vaccine facility at the Aberdeen proving grounds.
sablekennedy said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:17 am
Bunta said, “What makes you think that everyone at the CIA is privy to everything that’s going on in the organization? There’s different levels of classifications, different areas of research going on at once. Certainly, some projects are highly classified.”
Yes, but there are quite a few people with top-level classification. There are two in one of my client’s families: one has a two-year-old daughter and one has a sixteen-year-old daughter. They would never sacrifice their daughters – or even risk it – for ANY greater good. There are a lot of three-letter organizations but the FBI or ICE deal with law enforcement, just to name two. Not all are involved in intelligence collection.
Dreamsend said, “But it gets harder when the privacy rights of dead murderers seem to trump those of living people hoping to prevent future such shootings.”
I totally agree with you there. I have an inquisitive mind and many a time I’ve wanted to read excerpts from a serial murderer’s journal only to discover that it’s “classified” even though the trial is already finished. There are few things so aggravating. In any case, it seems to me that the more mysticism there is around a crime, the more it is mimicked…also, the more the media refers to this as “the worst killing on a college campus,” the more people are going to want to “best” it.
“However, what do you imagine the point was of the snipers’ sending a note to the sheriff insisting that he publicly say the phrase “We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose”? Well, if it were some sort of hypnotic suggestion, I’d expect the behavior of the snipers to change at that moment. Indeed, a few hours after the sheriff uttered that odd phrase, the snipers were found asleep in their vehicle.”
Wow. That’s something I never knew about… =/ It is very, very odd that the sheriff would consent to such an absurd statement – and what a coincidence that the snipers were found so quickly thereafter! I never actually read up very much on the DC sniper trial too much; I tend to be more interested in older crimes for whatever reason. I will be visiting crimelibrary in a few moments, though.
Anyway, I’ve gotta say that I will be subscribing to your blog and I hope when I start posting my more controversial theories (after I get an audience…lol), you’ll read them and challenge me; it’s my belief that debates better my thought process. =)
Jim Lunsford said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:19 am
It is through minds like yours that the citizenry will learn to govern themselves again. Or maybe for the first time. Thanks, Jim
sablekennedy said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:37 am
“… particular VTech has funding and recruiting going on by defense contractors and Darpa and CIA types…”
Well, I hate to break it to you but the CIA and FBI in particular are HEAVILY recruiting at all college campuses in recent years. My boyfriend goes to a less prestigious technical college than VA Tech and is only in his first year, but he’s already being recruited.
I am a senior in high school and went to an academic program about National Security in Washington, D.C. in March and was recruited not only by the Secret Service and a federal law enforcement agency, but also by the State Department.
I’m beginning to get the feeling that they’re severely understaffed.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:49 am
Oh good god, Sable…you are on some lists now. What was that “National Security” program?
Yes, there’s recruiting all over. However, again, I direct your attention to the actual partnership between Northrup Grumman and Westfield. That’s a pretty high level of cooperation. Also, two mass shooters in about a year from the same school.
I don’t know as much about VA tech. Given that it’s a tech school and given where it is, I assume it has all kinds of defense projects. I know the town that it’s in has more defense contracts than any other town in the state of Virginia.
woops…need to correct that. It’s the zip code of Chantilly that has the most. Richmond and other cities have several zip codes so have more than one entry on this chart:
http://www.governmentcontractswon.com/department/defense/virginia_zipcodes.asp
C Dub said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:59 am
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18248153/
“NASA shooter feared being fired, police say” etc
I think we will be seeing a lot of this in the near future
Michael Morecock said,
April 22, 2007 at 3:01 am
The CIA is also recruiting from the Korean-American sector, as I was reminded while eating at my favorite Korean owned and operated Teriaki joint. They have some magazines around that focus on Korean Americans – each one has an ad by the CIA. No big surprise, considering the status of North Korea with Washington. Might this shooting also be a way help Americans learn to fear the Koreans?
Banta said,
April 22, 2007 at 3:28 am
“Yes, but there are quite a few people with top-level classification. There are two in one of my client’s families: one has a two-year-old daughter and one has a sixteen-year-old daughter. They would never sacrifice their daughters – or even risk it – for ANY greater good.”
Your clients? Did I miss something somewhere?
The only response I have is there’s a lot of types of people in this world. I think you might be overgeneralizing things.
cadeveo said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:01 am
You’ve written the piece I wanted to write regarding this. First thing I remember thinking about VT when I heard about it on Monday was that it eerily resonated with a dream I’d had the previous morning, which made me think “some isht is about to go down,” so I got quite freaked by the news. The next thing I thought was “look for intelligence connections.” And I got quite frustrated in the search and exhausted by the news before i found a lot of the things you’ve just cited here. I wonder how the case of the other shooter in the area from the previous year (a guy named Morva) might connect to both Cho and Kennedy.
I find it also interesting that now from the NYTimes and Washington Post and UK Gaurdian, we’re essentially getting the same new story–which is the story of Seung-Hai Cho’s family. And the story their telling us about the family is this–nobody knew them.
All these Korean community organizations had virtually no info about them; the family didn’t even keep in contact with relatives and the parents almost never talked about their son. It’s odd, if true. And the story goes that Cho never spoke, he always behaved like this–no talk of possible cause, no trauma, no nothing. His mom prayed for him and was concerned; his sister loved him but now thinks she never knew him (rightly so, I’d say) but that’s about it. The family’s a blank page–and that’s very, very odd…unless you read about the Finders (CIA cut-out cult linked to child trafficking) and other equally murky, whispered tales of mind-control and black intel networks.
And the new news, the family stories, make no mention of Cho’s institutionalization or the medication (conflicting reports there–some saying he was on medications, others saying there’s no info in databases about that…so either he didn’t or he did, but it’s been scrubbed or was not prescribed or administered through the normal, above-ground channels). It’s as if those details don’t quite fit into the story at this point.
And I really don’t know what to think. And though I keep wanting to write more things about this, what I’m piecing together and or hypothesizing (with no conclusions declared, much like yourself), I’m at least for the moment deciding not to write anymore about it. I just gotta step back.
But I’m glad you’re not stepping back just yet. Great work, dream’s end. Let’s make sure we all remember to talk to each other and live out in the real world (without forgetting about the loose threads in so much of what we’re fed, mentally and otherwise).
Peace,
cadeveo
city chick said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:09 am
I found this post very interesting and insightful… honestly, much better than what the media is regurgitating over and over again.
Enjoy your weekend!
JohnS said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:12 am
Sister of Virginia Tech Shooter Works for a Company that Provides Intelligence and Physical Security Services to the U.S. Government
http://cryptogon.com/?p=636
Let’s look at Sun-Kyung, Cho’s sister:
Cho’s parents live in a townhouse development in Centreville, a
suburb of Washington. They own a dry-cleaning shop nearby.
His older sister, Sun-Kyung, graduated from Princeton University in
2004. A source, who asked to be identified as a senior Administration
official, said she works for McNeil Technologies, a firm contracted by
the State Department to manage reconstruction efforts in Iraq.
Woh. Ok. Stop right there.
What does McNeil Technologies do?
Oh, the usual black bag intelligence agency cut out kind of stuff…
Actually, there’s more here than you can shake a stick at.
The McNeil Technologies Services page lists the following categories:
Language Services, Information Management Services, Program Support
Services, Security Services, Intelligence Services.
I clicked on Intelligence Services first.
Intelligence Services -> Overview
McNeil’’s Intelligence and Language Center (ILC) provides unmatched
expertise in the areas of Intelligence and Language Services. The
combination of Intelligence and Language guarantees our clients mission
success.
Our services and capabilities include:
* Intelligence Architecture Operations in support of the US Army
Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).
* Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) which supports the Defense
Intelligence Agency (DIA) and other government agencies, and
* HUMINT (Human Intel) operations in support of DIA, or with federal
counter Intel outsourcing effort. Our
* Linguist operations, with linguists deployed in various theaters
of operations,
* Translation operations which include document and website translation,
* Testing, Training and Research of language and cultural awareness.
Under Intelligence Services -> Key Solutions, we see:
HUMINT Operations:
Classified CONUS and OCONUS support by seasoned Intel professionals.
That means support for intelligence operations inside and outside of the
continental United States.
bko said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:21 am
Hey, c dub! Do you know the Drews?
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:30 am
The CIA does recruit heavily in the Korean community…only it’s called the Unification Church. No connection to which do I find here, by the way, but just thought I’d mention it.
As for Cho’s sister…yep, I was suggesting that “State Department” often means “spy” although why someone with Korean language skills would be wanted in Iraq as a spy I don’t know. Her background is economics. In any event, that could all really be coincidence. The firm she works for does provide language services, though again, what her role in that would be I don’t know. Are there South Korean troops in Iraq as part of the “grand alliance”.
Bonus points for any info on Christopher “Jamie” Bishop. He was the German teacher who was killed but in a way that seemed targeted. Cho came right up to him and shot him in the head before firing at the rest of the class. He seemed a very nice and well liked man…I am not wanting to cast aspersions. It’s a bit interesting that his Dad is a well known sci-fi writer, Michael Bishop, who wrote a short story about the last night of the 9/11 hijackers…at a strip club, which, I believe, is exactly where some of those devout Muslims did spend their last night. From an interview (and I got this off a thread at Rigorous Intuition…a good find)
Perhaps the most compelling of the seventeen stories in Brighten to Incandescence is “Last Night Out,” in which Bishop ventures into perhaps the most alien of any alien realm: the mind of one of the 9/11 terrorists, out for a final Earthly sojourn (in a strip bar, of all places) on the eve of September 10. There are many disquieting aspects and elements to this story — the point of view, the discord between the terrorist’s ‘holy’ mission and the seedy environment in which he finds himself, and — most jarring, most fascinating — the seemingly cynical, almost paradoxical attitude of his fellow terrorist, whose idea the visit to the strip bar is: “Good women are obedient,” the narrator’s companion states, as women dance and titillate; “Give them money and they’ll do almost anything you ask.” The so-called clash of cultures has never resounded so mightily as in this short and, in some ways, difficult work. It is a staggering accomplishment of imagination — and, strange to say, of compassion.
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intmb2.htm
I was trying to think what was so important about Norris Hall and language classes. One possibility is that there were some Westfield students killed and maybe Cho simply knew that’s where they’d be. Maybe it was random. I’m not sure if Bishop was the first person killed in Norris, but it did seem like he was targeted.
note to sablekennedy: from one writer to another, I hope you think about some more serious content for your blog. You have a great mind. Romance and money are important, but I can find that stuff anywhere.
sadiesww said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:33 am
He didnt lose his mind..he gave it away…lay responsibility where it lands..his feet but he was a coward to kill himself in first place…too bad he didnt start with himself…
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:34 am
I guess you know him better than we do.
sadiesww said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:42 am
no…its obvious isnt it..we are responsible for ourselves
lifeinmotion said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:55 am
SO you are suggesting that Cho may have been an secret social experiment to see how individuals would react given a certain form of conditioning?
Lance said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:07 am
I think it’s a bit more like this…not exactly like this, but something like this:
Since the State Dept. has embassies and networks all over the world, it was both logical and handy to have CIA Station Chiefs work their trade out of embassy facilities. That’s the main connection of SD and CIA. However, many covert ops work independently of Station Chiefs. Why? Because embassies are sloppy places to attempt tight security. Many of their personnel are locals and the whole world can see who comes and goes there. So the “spooks” rarely set foot inside the embassy compounds.
So it would seem that one way to find the spooks would be to follow the Chiefs around. Not so. Most of the real operations happen more deeply independent than this. Some Chiefs have no idea what Clandestine Service personnel or Analysts may be working in their back yards.
As for languages. After I graduated from the Defense Language Institute — Presidio of Monterey as a German linguist in Army Intelligence, I was sent to South America. Makes a lot of sense, eh? It’s not always the language they need, and sometimes they want to expose you to other things. Now I speak some Farsi, Italian, and French, and am fluent in German and one other language (which I will not divulge here). I have splashes of many other languages and can recognize about 50-60 foreign languages when I hear them. So it’s not all as simple or as (il)logical as it may seem.
tastethesea said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:10 am
Found this blog perchance because it was in the top-viewed or something like that on wordpress. It’s good to hear people making sense of things.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:16 am
Trained to speak German at the Presidio, huh? When was that? Did you know Michael Aquino?
gentlyused said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:25 am
nothing new here.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:29 am
Thank God! Don’t want to stand out.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:36 am
benodem said,
April 21, 2007 at 6:06 am
other idea is that this is the first step to take mind control onto the campuses , by making people agree to systematically monitor 2.0 content for signs of mental aberration , for means of security and means of looking for intellectual heretics.
————————————————————————————————————
I’ve been thinking the same thing. Not long ago, Bush called for psych evaluations of all school kids. This could serve a few purposes of the controllers. More meds, more $$$ for big pharma; actually identify some genuine nutjobs; and what you said. Shades of the Soviet Union mental hospitals for dissidents.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:46 am
Banta said,
April 21, 2007 at 7:54 pm
11:11, or whatever you want to be called now, how come you even have a username? Do you have a blog on wordpress or something? The only thing mine shows above the comment box is a space where I can enter any name I want and then my email.
——————————————————————————————————————-
No, I’m not a blogger, and I guess that I never logged into the Worpress system, because I realize, now, that those who have have their names in blue (hyperlinks, or whatever you call them). You can’t “click” on my user name. When I clicked on that Organic blog, there was 11:11 and my email! I don’t know jack about computers, so I have no idea how that works. It’s kind of creepy, don’t you think?
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:49 am
I don’t want to make you anymore paranoid, but for some reason, when you post, 11:11…and only when you post, I get an email telling me that you have. I have no idea what that means.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:56 am
Actually, this is pretty weird. I looked at my preferences. I’m supposed to get an email anytime ANYONE makes a comment, and yet only 11:11 triggers this, if you’ll pardon the obscure pun. It also has your email address. I have no idea why. I would clear your cache (should be able to do this under the privacy preferences of you browser) and try again. You should also be able to log out. Sorry I can’t be more help.
C Dub said,
April 22, 2007 at 6:15 am
bko “Do you know the Drews?” – no, should i?
DE “I’m not sure if Bishop was the first person killed in Norris” – it is being reported that he was. maybe he just gave cho an f???
DE “Trained to speak German at the Presidio, huh? When was that? Did you know Michael Aquino?” – Lance said “Predisio of Monterey” – this is different than the presidio in sf
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 6:30 am
Oh…thought I had a contact. Oh well. He knows too much about intelligence work anyway…probably shouldn’t encourage him.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 6:37 am
Still reading all the comments. Just wanted to add, re: Koreans being recruited into the alphabets – think Reverend Moon. He’s Poppy Bush’s best bud, Neil Bush Bush has traveled the world with him, the Bushies just bought that land in Pagaguay, next to a million acres purchased by Moon, AND….drumbroll…….Moon WAS crowned King of the Universe in a United States Senate building. Oh, yeah.
He also made his fortune in arms trafficking.
You got it all, righ there – Cult, military connections, ruling elite, and a Korean who is VERY influencial with the worst of the worst. Its’ said that Poppy Bush availed himself of the services of some the Franklin Cover Up teen sex slaves. Mind controlled, as in Johnny Gosch, or is that Jeff Gannon?
Yes, I’m connecting dots, and yes, I’m speculating. But, shit, nobody’s gonna spell it out for anyone.
I’ve been researching mind control for years, and have been fortunate enough to get to know some MK ULTRA survivors (a few). EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM traces this back to their earliest childhood memories. This starts BEFORE school, is ritualistic in nature, it’s roots lie in the occult.
Numbers, ritual sacrifice, the idea that these things bring their practioners power – it all seems insane. YET, these people believe in this stuff, and they are in charge. I certainly do not believe in any of it, but I pay attention to the fact they do.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 6:56 am
Hey, I just remembered something. On GLP there was thread that had a Youtube video of a news report (VA, local, I believe). It was an interveiw with a student who said he saw someone (during the event) running from one of the bldgs, bleeding, and an SUV screeched to a stop, picked the person up, and drove away very fast.
On day one, there were two different descriptions of the shooter. One said he was in a tan, short sleve shirt, with a black vest. They said he looked like a boy scout. The other description said black leather jacket, and a maroon beret.
Whoever did the shooting that day, was a good shot. The kill ratio was pretty damn high for someone w/o firearms training. Everyone who was killed was shot multiple times. That requires putting in new clips, yet nobody jumped him when he paused to do that. It’s not like he was shooting from a tower (like at Austin ), with a rifle. This was a hand gun, and he was walking around in a crowd of people? I think it’s very likely there were two shooters.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:02 am
Hey, remember this, too – when the Finders guys were busted, some of the info turned up showed that they were procuring kids from Asia, through a Chinese contact.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:24 am
The Finders — a group of about 40 people that court documents allege is led by a man named Marion Pettie — and their various homes, including ……a 90 acre farm in rural Madison County, VA.
There were pictures of nude children and adult Finders, as well as evidence of high-tech money transfers. There was a file called “Pentagon Break-in,” and references to activities in Moscow, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, North Vietnam, North Korea, Africa, London, Germany, “Europe” and the Bahamas.
One such telex specifically ordered the purchase of two children in Hong Kong to be arranged through a contact in the Chinese Embassy there. Other documents identified interests in high-tech transfers to the United Kingdom, numerous properties under the control of the Finders, a keen interest in terrorism, explosives, and the evasion of law enforcement.
The warehouse contained a large library, two kitchens, a sauna, hot tub and a ‘video room.’ The video room seemed to be set up as an indoctrination center. The organization had the ability to produce its own videos.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/ciadrugsabusemurder.shtml
So (and I’m just engaging i some wild speculation), what IS the Cho family’s history? What haven’t we been hearing form teachers and childhood family friends? Is it possible that Cho was a Finders kid?
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:38 am
Lance said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:07 am
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I have the same question as DE: Did you know Aquino?
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:39 am
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:49 am
I don’t want to make you anymore paranoid, but for some reason, when you post, 11:11…and only when you post, I get an email telling me that you have. I have no idea what that means.
WHAT???!
nootpad said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:52 am
This is an excellent post! There’s another discussion with more details going on here:
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number=295425259&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=1
bodicea said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:54 am
Not bad. Good insights there. I didn’t know about Kennedy before this.
Then again, my priority is on my PR finals tomorrow.
You know, the only reason why I really bother about this dude Cho and his killings is because yesterday, a friend related my latest post to his. -___-v
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:56 am
Hey, even some of my posts w/o a link just vanished (i’m on a roll, here, lol).
DE, get that finders post up as soon as you can. I have a feeling about that one (thanks to cadeveo for mentioning them).
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:03 am
nootpad said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:52 am
This is an excellent post! There’s another discussion with more details going on here:
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number=295425259&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=
_________________________________________________________________
AIPAC SPY TRIAL? Wow. Didn’t know about that. Jeez, the next thing we’ll find out is that Silel Edmonds was going to speak somewhere.
Thank you for the link. That’s a good forum.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:07 am
bodicea said:
“You know, the only reason why I really bother about this dude Cho and his killings is because yesterday, a friend related my latest post to his. -___-v”
What post, what do you mean?
DE, never mind about my posts. They came back.
eleventyurple said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:19 am
“So why write it, other than to gratify a resentment against “the military-industrial complex”?”
I felt someone needed to respond directly to this. It’s not necessary to come to conclusions in order for examination to be justified. As a matter of fact, it’s counter-productive.
I find these correlations to be much more valid than the ones many major media outlets are constructing out of fear, frustration and the need for fleshing out the scripts of various paid talking head “experts”. Besides, most of those are based on “hot button issues” like popular culture and video games.
Keep thinking hard and jotting it down, Mr End.
C Dub said,
April 22, 2007 at 9:04 am
Since I haven’t seen this come up at all…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_Lucas
“Lucas was born on August 23, 1936, in Blacksburg, Virginia”
And for the record:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva
Shooting of two near V-Tech campus, August 21, 2006. Two interesting bits in here: “A self-professed survivalist” & “Police evacuated and searched Squires Student Center on the campus after someone fitting Morva’s description was seen inside. However, this sighting turned out to be unfounded.”
Mack said,
April 22, 2007 at 9:30 am
It’s sad tragedy.
Teeg said,
April 22, 2007 at 9:31 am
I was on my way over to Mikes, I was a little early and decided to eat before I got over there, while I was ordering…. it happened to occur to me that Mike might want a cheeseburger too. S0…, I did it, it was a risk, people would not think it was cool, but I decided to SNEAK IT.
So I got over to Mike’s and hid the extra cheese burger a under my jacket, then waited till he let me in, then gave him the cheeseburger.
He liked it.
So when was the last time somebody did something like that for you?
I’m talking about CIVIL, CIVILIZED AND CIVILIAN..
Try a study to see what person from V -Tech has actually been nice to another human being in the last ten years.
The high school, and the college,if they can’t be nice, then close the paces. Its safer.
Lance said,
April 22, 2007 at 9:33 am
I was there in the late 80s. Name doesn’t ring a bell, but I’ve slept since then. Plus, in the Army we rarely used first names unless they were close friends. It was rank and last name mostly.
Evan Palmer said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Mind Control 101
————————–
If programs of mind control were being run now, and at least one previous program was involuntarily acknowledged by the US (mkultra), how difficult is it to believe that other programs are being run under deeper cover.
How difficult is it to think that many programs are being run by several governments? Some in their own countries, others in suitable countries, others in target countries.
Speculating on the fact that these school shootings seem to be mainly an American phenomenon, and to a lesser degree Canadian, it might be a reflection that these programs are most active in the USA and Canada because this is exactly the type of spillover we would expect from ruthless amoral forays into psychic manipulation.
How about an in-depth study of this high school to see where the connections go?
—————————————–
The Way It Can Be
Evan Palmer
http://twicb.blogspot.com
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Lance, C Dub pointed out that this was the wrong Presidio anyway. Right time, though. That’s also the time of the sex abuse scandal at the S.F. Presidio.
11:11…I can’t explain it. I’m going to turn off the feature that sends me email when someone posts a comment and see what happens. As for the Finders…first off, Pettie is dead. There is a bit of evidence that some of them moved to Asia, but it was Taiwan, I think. Interestingly, several of the Finders became “futurologists.” I think if I’ve learned anything, it’s not to trust futurologists.
C Dub, I think your reading list is as dark as mine. For those who don’t know, alleged serial killer Henry Lee Lucas was the only man on death row ever to have his sentence commuted to life by George W. Bush.
Please help me prune spam. When a comment makes a vague reference to “nice blog!” or “lots of comments” or “I hope you’ll add me to my blogroll” it’s usually spam. The filter is catching most but I found three that got through.
More Oddities in V. Tech Shooting « Lila Rajiva: The Mind-Body Politic said,
April 22, 2007 at 2:51 pm
[...] is the piece which is heading the popular wordpress blog posts on the subject [...]
Writing is something one will never master; « RL SL Mashup said,
April 22, 2007 at 3:20 pm
[...] read something today on WordPress.com Hot Blogs about how the killer at VT may have been fucked in the ass by a teacher [...]
mary sparrowdancer said,
April 22, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Some excellent observations. Just a quick comment on an interwoven thread that I’ve been following for a few years. It continues to be overlooked: Fluoride. (F-)
Prozac, Paxil, Celexa, and Luvox are all fluorinated and F- crosses the blood/brain barrier. As we also know, F- is in two-thirds of the nation’s water supply. As a result of this, fluoride is now also contaminating almost all packaged, processed grain and cereal foods (according to the USDA). Other drugs linked to violent, uncharacteristic rage, agitation, disruption of cognitive function have been Flonase, Lipitor, Crestor, Vytorin, and especially Lariam. These are all fluorinated, and Lariam is the only fluorinated anti-malarial that military personnel are forced to take. There are many others, as well, but there are no tests in the US to determine how much of the F- is bio-available after ingestion. (For some reason, Crestor has a particular black box warning for Asians.)
On top of all this, the public generally does not realize that the CDC and various dentists have encouraged schools with their own water systems to fluoridate students’ water at 4.5 times the level allowed for municipal waters.
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00039178.htm
Add to this that some of the school settings (including Columbine and West Paducah), have been within a short distance of Superfund Sites, meaning even more fluorides. Fluoride blocks thyroid function, and the thyroid controls mood, serotonin, etc. The problem is, whenever you mention “fluoride,” one is immediately perceived as wearing a tinfoil hat.
11:11 said,
April 22, 2007 at 4:49 pm
I dunno, the Finders idea has me a little fixated. I think I’ve read just about everything available on them, but that’s not much, unfortunately. Including that weird defense of Pettie, his friends, and animal sacrifice, by Patch Adams.
DE, that’s the first thing I thought of, too, about Lucas. Damnit, I just think these things are too coincidental. Shit, W was a regular killing cheerleader, yet the only person he wants NOT killed is one the most nototious serial killers ever?
Lance, what do you mean by, “I”ve slept since then”? Hope you took the time to look up the Lt. Col.
sablekennedy said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:20 pm
“Your clients? Did I miss something somewhere?”
Well, one of my babysitting clients. =) As a means of earning money, it’s not to be outdone.
“No big surprise, considering the status of North Korea with Washington. Might this shooting also be a way help Americans learn to fear the Koreans?”
Why not the Iranians? Iran seems to be our next potential “target.”
“Are there South Korean troops in Iraq as part of the “grand alliance”. ”
I don’t think so, although I’m not entirely sure. If there are any, I’m going to guess they’re below the 1,000 mark.
“note to sablekennedy: from one writer to another, I hope you think about some more serious content for your blog. You have a great mind.”
I’ve got a couple of extremely controversial things in Word right now, waiting for an audience so that there can be some good discussion. =) Oh, and thanks! =D
“Hey, I just remembered something. On GLP there was thread that had a Youtube video of a news report (VA, local, I believe). It was an interveiw with a student who said he saw someone (during the event) running from one of the bldgs, bleeding, and an SUV screeched to a stop, picked the person up, and drove away very fast.”
I saw that; there was an FBI agent inside. However, as the FBI is more of a federal law enforcement agency than an intelligence-collecting or spy agency, this proves nothing: they were probably just taking the eyewitness to headquarters to question him.
“That requires putting in new clips, yet nobody jumped him when he paused to do that.”
I’m going to admit right here that I would never be brave enough to jump a man I knew to be shooting my peers unless I was armed as well…and in that case, I’m sorry to say, I’d rather shoot out his knee or wrist than get too close to him.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:34 pm
I don’t know about the screeching van, could just be a vehicle pressed into service for the emergency. I know one professor was transported this way. But your knowledge of the FBI is not too strong. The CIA is prevented by law from spying domestically. Naturally, that doesn’t mean they don’t. Domestic spying is, in fact, the purpose of the FBI. Please do a search on COINTELPRO to learn more.
That said, where did you find this report? I can’t think why there would have been any FBI agents there unless it’s typical for them to be called in for a support role in a large emergency like this. But it was under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement.
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Oh, wiki says South Korea had 3600 troops at their peak and are down to 2300 at the “present” but the chart is not dated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq
sablekennedy said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Well, it’s according to my grandfather, who is quite interested in this investigation (he’s a widowed ex-Army professional – disgruntled, needless to say). He was watching the local news when the van pulled up and told me that he saw a man inside wearing an FBI jacket. I was without power at that point and en route to his house for shelter.
According to the NSA representative I spoke to, the FBI cannot spy domestically on a US citizen without a warrant. The USAPATRIOT Act allows for domestic spying, yes, but to spy on a US citizen who is not having extensive and suspicious overseas communications still requires a warrant.
As a side note, I’ve posted the least controversial of my projects (I got 20 hits yesterday
).
dreamsend said,
April 22, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Please do look up COINTELPRO.
thereserose said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:02 pm
By the way, Cho is his surname. His first name is Seung-Hui.
the CIA was PRoBiNG ChO's BRAnE with LaZorZ « …and stuff said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:07 pm
[...] April 22nd, 2007 · No Comments Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School « Dream’s End [...]
Banta said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:29 pm
The blog linked to in post 129 seems real worthwhile.
One of my favorite parts:
“If you knew me, though, you would find that I am, and have been for years, in favor of gun control (not only handguns, but rifles too). I’m in favor of abortion, and I vote for Democrats.”
Oh wow, that makes you like real enlightened then! Rare to find such a progressive mind.
Sam L said,
April 22, 2007 at 8:55 pm
If after reading all these strange connections, this turns out to be just a young man that had had enough of the idiots that surrounded him, will anything be done about the “jock” mentality that prevails in American schools? When will people finally do something about th bully that runs free on EVERY school in America (Sorry to Canadians and Mexicans as well as all those down in SA).
Back to conspiracy,,, Greta on Faux Nooz is saying, “,,, he did exactly what he did in his video diary, shoot himself,,,”, well I gots some news for the fake news outlet, he didn’t do exactly what he did in his video. The video has his gun at his temple, where we are told he shot himself under his chin, twice??. Little off details in the propaganda matrix is what exposes it as propaganda.
Evan Palmer said,
April 22, 2007 at 9:00 pm
An effective counter measure that doesn’t endanger everyone else in the school (i.e. not guns) is a heavy-duty canister of pepper spray.. the large dispensers that the police use… you can set them on walls across from the fire extinguishers, different colour.. grab one and spray the intruder.. goes through clothes.. it’s under pressure so the spray can go many meters with sufficient force, more than enough to be effective in any given building.. the spray is debilitating.. then the cops hiding behind cars and trees can come out and collar the suspect..
kayinmaine said,
April 22, 2007 at 11:23 pm
What if he was brainwashed?
http://whitenoiseinsanity.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/condi-rice-is-connected-to-the-virginia-tech-shooters-sister-oh-boy/
Not sure, but “what are the chances”?
sablekennedy said,
April 23, 2007 at 12:19 am
“An effective counter measure that doesn’t endanger everyone else in the school (i.e. not guns) is a heavy-duty canister of pepper spray.”
That’s a good idea, and I for one fully intend on applying for a license to carry mace on May 10th (my 18th birthday). However, having a canister of mace hanging on the wall is just asking for trouble. It will most certainly be used in fights and spats, resulting in major injuries and LOTS of lawsuits. Our educational system is already under-funded. If you go to my blog, the first post (third one down; scroll down until you see “Where do we go from here?”) deals with what I think could be done.
Banta, are you suggesting that being in favor of abortion makes one stupid, or is it being in favor of gun control? Voting Democrat, even?
I favor some gun control, abortion up to 11 weeks after conception (13 weeks after the woman’s last missed period), “swing both ways” politically, and don’t support gay marriage but rather civil unions and I’d say I’m a fairly intelligent person…. However, I believe that people who are anti-gun control laws, anti-abortion, staunchly Democrat or staunchly Republican, and/or support gay marriage can be intelligent too. All of those things I listed are opinions, not scores on an IQ test.
sablekennedy said,
April 23, 2007 at 12:32 am
“will anything be done about the “jock” mentality that prevails in American schools? When will people finally do something about th bully that runs free on EVERY school in America ”
Probably not. My junior high school had an allegedly “no tolerance” policy after three oft-bullied students attempted suicide within months of each other. When I was in fifth grade, a new girl came to school. We became fast friends, but suddenly she asked me to split my lunch money with her and that she’d pay me back. I agreed. She asked again the next day, saying she couldn’t pay me back yet. She wound up borrowing $50 from me, and I began to distrust her: she kept showing up to school in cool new clothes. As a result, my friends and I distanced ourselves from her. On the last day of school (some two weeks after I tried to create distance between us), I was still avoiding her even though she was following me around, trying to hang out with me. I had a bad “gut” feeling about her that day, so in an attempt to get rid of her, I asked her when she was going to pay me back. She punched me in the face not once, but twice (I guess that’s what was causing the bad feeling =P). I went to Guidance and they did nothing. They asked her why she did it; she said she had been anxious about moving here from California and it just “burst out.” They didn’t call her parents or punish her; they told her to apologize to me. My younger sister is quite tall and skinny. When she was in sixth grade, her peers began substituting “Marcie* germs” for “cooties.” She told all her teachers and guidance. They actually tried to help this time, but were totally ineffective. Resultantly, I have very little faith that even one school district in this nation can completely stop bullying: it must begin with the CHILDREN’s desire to stop bullying.
*Not her real name.
jiicil said,
April 23, 2007 at 1:51 am
damn
Banta said,
April 23, 2007 at 1:51 am
“Banta, are you suggesting that being in favor of abortion makes one stupid, or is it being in favor of gun control? Voting Democrat, even?”
No, not at all. I was replying to the blog’s suggestion that doing those things somehow puts one above corruption, in a way. He seemed to be playing in the idea that most people who believe in conspiracies by the government also think that these conspiracies are carried out by right wing elements.
Personally, I try not to use the terms “left” and “right” at all, as it fails to take into account where the “middle” lies.
For the record, I don’t mind abortion, do not support gun control, and probably would never vote for a Democrat again (or a Republican for that matter). Or hell, even vote at all!
“All of those things I listed are opinions, not scores on an IQ test.”
Trust me, I wouldn’t critique someone’s intelligence based on how they feel about those issues. Or even most issues. The only thing that makes me doubt someone’s intelligence is when they jump to conclusions, while not knowing or ignoring information. And even then, I don’t doubt it that much, cause lord knows we’re all guilty of that on occasion. I’m not perfect enough to be calling people stupid.
That blog post irritated me because it did not deal with the meat of the subject at all and completely mischaracterized DE’s post, resorting several times to the whole “nutso conspiracy theorist” angle. Sometimes these things bug me more than other times… although, I guess I should be used to it, since that’s the only level of discussion you’ll find in any mainstream outlets.
“They actually tried to help this time, but were totally ineffective. Resultantly, I have very little faith that even one school district in this nation can completely stop bullying: it must begin with the CHILDREN’s desire to stop bullying.”
Undoubtedly. In fact, reporting such incidents to school officials would probably only serve to increase the bullying, as the child would be perceived as one who can’t stand the heat. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
starry said,
April 23, 2007 at 2:28 am
John Michael McConnell –
now going as “Mike” McConnell had served as a Senior Vice President with the consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, focusing on the Intelligence and National Security areas and is now Director of National Intelligence as of February 20, 2007.
Some have said that “J” has/had been in the top position of the alleged organization Majestic Twelve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McConnell
I wonder why he started going by “Mike” once named DNI instead of “John”……
starry said,
April 23, 2007 at 2:51 am
in response to sablekennedy @
April 21, 2007 at 3:21 pm
“However, all of these “mind control” theories seem highly unlikely to me. I personally think the CIA, DIA, etc learned their lesson in the 50s and 60s. Mind control is far too unpredictable. Additionally, Virginia Tech is not a very politically active campus, so if, as benodem suggested, an intelligence agency wanted to watch a school, why wouldn’t they pick American University (#1 most politically active campus in the country), or Georgetown University,…”
I would like to add that being a graduate of American University myself it is pretty much understood that in the DC area — that Virginia Tech actually has more prestige especially in the areas of engineering and sciences….
also the thing you wrote about domestic surveillance…
HA! – don’t you believe it. They watch whoever they want to – when ever they want to.
11:11 said,
April 23, 2007 at 7:35 am
Does anyone know what’s happened with the RI board?
Maldiveshealth recieves Death threats « MaldivesHealth said,
April 23, 2007 at 7:44 am
[...] Cho Seung-hui and the Not So Secret School [...]
justlearningman said,
April 23, 2007 at 10:17 am
DE sorry if this has already been mentioned as the post is too long to read every comment.
The victim of bullying will try to redress the balance and the whole aspect of the school appears to be an arena for that type of behaviour.
You rightly touched on abuse as another issue and obviously the authorities should be looking at the two kids from that school.
Thanks for stirring up the thinking rather than just labelling him as a sicko, as it is so easy to do yet leaves no solution.
We interrupt this program to tell you that there is no news « in.spite said,
April 23, 2007 at 1:19 pm
[...] rest is all just idle speculation, and mainly bull shit. I mean honestly take this /cho-seung-hui-and-the-not-so-secret-school/ for instance, it’s plain old rubbish, but at least it isn’t being shoved down my [...]
WoodyWoodman said,
April 23, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Well DE you have joined Jeff at RI in the club of endless blog links. I can hardly imagine the size of this comment section if all the limpet links were displayed. I wonder what the thinking is with commment 143. Perhaps you will read it and think; my speculation is idle? Hellfire! They have found me out! Some knowing sage of blogdom has declared bullshit? I must then respectfully bow out of internet folks. Thanks for the support.
On a different note, I think I have missed something about the whole 23,5 thing. I was under the impression that to the Discordians in the know it was an inside joke. From what I gathered it was kind of an excercise in absurd connection making. The joke was that not everyone practicing this process knew this. Mayhap I’m just placing too much importance on the writings of RA Wilson.
pele said,
April 23, 2007 at 2:44 pm
i think that on another, completely superficial (or not) tangent, its interesting to note th NBCs daytime drama, Days of Our Lives, is currently (and has before) portraying one of its leading characters, brain-washed and currently involuntary committed in a sanitarium, as this trained assassin that can be ‘called up’ at a moment’s notice. Or in this case, at the displaying of a particular tarot card.
He has extreme episodes of memory loss, hostility, unpredictability and in the audience is “aware” of who is most likely facilitating this behavior in this otherwise “normal” character. He is known to his friends and family as someone completely different than the person they used to know– and with no apparent reason or prompting. Its also interesting to note that he refuses his meds and defies the institution as he still has a thread of himself left…
Curious, what is shown right before our eyes… if only we are aware…
sablekennedy said,
April 23, 2007 at 3:56 pm
“I would like to add that being a graduate of American University myself it is pretty much understood that in the DC area — that Virginia Tech actually has more prestige especially in the areas of engineering and sciences….”
American University’s far more prestigious than VA Tech in terms of International Relations and Justice, but that’s not the point. I was alluding to the fact that if anyone wanted to assassinate college students for their political beliefs, it would be most likely to happen at American University because those students are extremely politically active. =) Nice to know there’s a grad around, though! Did you enjoy it?
starry said,
April 23, 2007 at 7:30 pm
sablekennedy:
my thought that this was not a “political” shooting – at least by the shooter at all.
it was more like a diversion for the nations news services not to give too much attention to something else – kind of like the DC Sniper event.
re American University,
I enjoyed it – it has been awhile though. when I attended the university in the mid 80’s it really was not THAT politically active. It WAS international but I thought rather conservative — or slightly naive in it’s so called “political” stance.
For example, they got involved in the South African ANC rather late in the struggle… Several years late with their tent city protest… IMHO. this display was novel at the time because there had been little or no political activism on any American college campus for a long time. This was the 80’s – post Reagan and the era of Bush Sr.
I agree about the International Relations program being well respected. I had a housemate that majored in that. However, I have a sense that John Hopkins’ “School of Advanced International Studies” (SAIS) had them beat in that area also – or at least used to… I have been away from the DC scene for the last 5 years – perhaps things have changed.
DC also has like a zillion different police forces and I suspect security is fairly high these days.
Let's look a little deeper into Cho Seung-hui « metropolitan observer said,
April 23, 2007 at 7:46 pm
[...] The blog Dream’s End has done some excellent investigative journalism, finding a link between Cho Seung-hui and another school shooter, Michael Kennedy. They went to the same school in Virginia, which also has a “business relationship” with defense contractor Northrup Grumman. There is a great deal more to explain Cho Seung-hui’s character than “loner,” and building profiles for guys like Cho, with the hope that future school shootings will be avoided, would be incomplete without taking into consideration some of the other influences which affect a mind. [...]
HMW said,
April 23, 2007 at 7:55 pm
As someone on another forum pointed out, pretty much any week is a good time for a diversion to reduce scrutiny of the White House….BUT.
This past week was a perfect storm of waves converging on the lawn of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue which included:
>More on the Pentagon’s cover-up of what looks like the assassination of Pat Tilman to prevent his Chomsky-reading expose of betrayal in an illegal war when he returned home.
Despite using a smoke grenade to identify himself as a ‘friendly’ he had three American bullets blow his head off after being separated from his brother on patrol.
This ended up in the Friday news dump.
>Dennis Kucinich was going to introduce articles of impeachment against Cheney…but waited. The Vermont State legislature voted for this anyway.
>Atty. Genl. Alberto Gonzales failed to portray himself as not deserving firing in front of a Senate committee where he was plainly guilty of perjury and covering for the White House’s attempts to prevent prosecution of GOP corruption.
>John McCain was shown again to be the lying sack he is with an obscenely deadly photo-op in Baghdad followed by bombings in the Green Zone reminding us that war is beyond lost.
>Yet another global warming report was released pointing out that poor people around the world will suffer the consequences much more than rich people.
And that was all pre-empted in the Operation Mockingbird TV ‘news’ with this shooting which made ‘America’ feel the victim of a violent foreigner who resented the rich and was enraged by ‘conspiracy theories.’
Bad boys. Whatcha gonna do?
the central scrutinizer said,
April 23, 2007 at 8:55 pm
im gonna continue to whisper into this bullhorn.
Kevin Strickland said,
April 23, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Speaking of crazy…
11:11 said,
April 23, 2007 at 9:47 pm
HMW, don’t foreget that AIPAC spy trial. I believe that trumps anything you mentioned. One of the people who has information on that is Sibel Edmonds, and she has been effectively silenced. That spy trial could get into things like the international drug and arms trade, along with sales of nulear material to terrorist organizations. It also leads straight to people like Wolfowitz, and other NOT small potatos.
Jan said,
April 23, 2007 at 10:10 pm
I saw an interview with this boys father today on one of the cable news shows. He said his son was blessed on Monday the 16th that he was not shot… he had just left the building before the shooting started.
“Man dies after accident at Beach intersection
11:00 PM EDT on Friday, April 20, 2007
By 13News
Around 2:45 p.m., a red Prelude lost control, flipped several times, hit a tree and caught fire at the intersection of Providence Road and Indian River Road. The driver, Jeff Nielsen Santo Domingo Soriano, 18, of Chesapeake, was rendered unconscious by the crash.
Also Online
Site of Accident
Nightingale was called in to transport Soriano to a trauma center. He suffered serious injuries and later died.
According to his myspace, Soriano is an Indian River High School graduate and was a student at Virginia Tech.
As a result of the accident, Providence Road was shut down from Depositor Lane to Indian River Road.
If you know anything about this incident, please call the Crime Line at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP”.
http://www.wvec.com/news/vabeach/stories/wvec_local_042007_car_crash.2acb80f8.html
Jan said,
April 23, 2007 at 10:37 pm
This is the students myspace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=19377507
Looks a lot like the person in this photo:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usguns/Story/0,,2058525,00.html
marcozna said,
April 23, 2007 at 11:25 pm
I found a couple of pretty good articles on Cho and what drove him insane enough to kill 32 people.
Check them out here:
http://views-on-the-news.blogspot.com/2007/04/could-virginia-tech-massacre-have-been.html
Did you know that 9 out of the last 12 school shootings were done by people on psychiatric medication? And why were the other 3 not? well nobody released the files and probably they were.
and then another one by Dr Breggin on Cho’s psychiatric history.
http://views-on-the-news.blogspot.com/2007/04/story-behind-cho.html
Really I think he is the work of Psychiatry.
http://marcozna.wordpress.com/2007/01/24/the-psychiatry-way/
[:-]
David Martin said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:19 am
Westfield is a very large new high school, and it could well be just coincidence that two deranged multiple murderers are both fairly recent graduates of the school. (The area on the west side of Chantilly, VA, is actually called Westfields, after the name a developer gave to his office park. That was supposed to be the name of the school until parents and would-be cheerleaders complained that “Westfields” is an awkward mouthful and “Westfield” had a better ring to it.) It might be just coincidence as well that the largest employer by far in Westfields is the super secret National Reconnaissance Office. Westfield High School and the NRO complex of large buildings are about a mile from each other, and the Cho family townhouse is also about a mile from the NRO, slightly nearer than to the school. If you go to Google maps and zero in using the satellite map hybrid option just to the west of Chantilly, the NRO is that complex of buildings that you see where Rte. 28 bends, on the west side, and Westfield High School is identifiable by the track around the football field. There was an unsolved, mysterious murder of a security guard at the NRO just before it began operations and had yet to reveal to the public that it was not, as it had claimed to be, the North American Rockwell complex. You can read about the murder and media cover-up at http://www.dcdave.com/article2/092698.htm and http://www.dcdave.com/article4/020520.html .
southofreality said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:44 am
Johhny Boy said
” I am sick of the media calling him human garbage, etc… Yes he was sick, disturbed and mentally ill and what he did was so VERY wrong- but was he was not born this way- something or possibly, someone made him this way. This is merely my opinion.”
He’s being called such things because very few people are interested assigning blame elsewhere. Nobody wants to believe that everyone in our society may bear some responsibility for incidents like these. Does anyone believe in the “I am my brother’s keeper” philosophy anymore?
X: THC said,
April 24, 2007 at 2:14 am
Question Marks…
“This didn’t have to happen”, Cho Seung-Hui said, after brutally murdering thirty-two people at Virginia Tech University.
And this terrible tragedy of sons, daughters, mothers and fathers didn’t have to happen, if we’d only listened.
But we never listen.
We never listen to those that are different from us- the outcasts, the lonely, the homeless, the ones that are unspoken for. We don’t try to understand. We shun them and put them out of our minds because of our fear that we will become like them.
And these people become more and more lonely and alienated in their isolation.
Words like “creep”, “deranged misfit” and “psycho” devalue this killer’s humanity so we don’t have to face how similar he is to us. Cries of “how could he have been stopped” are uttered by media quick to sensationalize and gain market share, when the words “how could he have been listened to” are never considered.
Because we don’t want to listen.
We don’t want to hear about loneliness and alienation when we’re all so busy with our lives, making money and making friends. And the unpopular, the ones that don’t fit in, the lonely ones are ignored or made fun of because we don’t care to understand anything about them.
As a boy, Cho Seung-Hui “was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness” (Associated Press). When he started college, according to the Guardian, “his mother took his dormitory mates to one side to explain about her son’s unusual character and implored them to help.”
And he clearly needed help, devaluing himself so much that he called himself “Question Mark”.
There are more “Question Marks” out there. There are millions of them. And if we don’t listen to them, they will follow the same path again and again, because people are not connecting. We are becoming more and more disconnected from each other, creating more and more “Question Marks” every day.
Most “Question Marks” don’t become murderers. Some just kill themselves. Most harm no one and live just as we do, needing antidepressants to appear what we call “normal”. They may be someone you know, someone you love.
This “Question Mark” was once a little boy, who cried, and smiled and loved, He wanted to fit in just like you and I. But that desire to fit in transformed itself into anger towards a society that shunned and ignored him.
How many more times will we shun and ignore the one that doesn’t fit in, the one in the corner, the one that’s different? When all we have to do is listen, before it’s too late.
But we won’t.
Thirty-two human beings who did not know Cho Seung-Hui were murdered.
They were sons, daughters, fathers and mothers, with dreams of futures that will never come and children that will never be born. The thirty-two leave behind people that love them. People that are now scarred for life by this horrible day of death.
To most of us that have not been directly involved, this tragedy will become a memory and fade like all the others that came before.
And the “Question Marks” will appear with more frequency, again and again, because we don’t listen.
We never do.
—————
http://www.x-thc.com
11:11 said,
April 24, 2007 at 3:07 am
Security and Liberty
April 23, 2007
The senseless and horrific killings last week on the campus of Virginia Tech University reinforced an uneasy feeling many Americans experienced after September 11th: namely, that government cannot protect us. No matter how many laws we pass, no matter how many police or federal agents we put on the streets, a determined individual or group still can cause great harm. Perhaps the only good that can come from these terrible killings is a reinforced understanding that we as individuals are responsible for our safety and the safety of our families.
Although Virginia does allow individuals to carry concealed weapons if they first obtain a permit, college campuses within the state are specifically exempted. Virginia Tech, like all Virginia colleges, is therefore a gun-free zone, at least for private individuals. And as we witnessed, it didn’t matter how many guns the police had. Only private individuals on the scene could have prevented or lessened this tragedy. Prohibiting guns on campus made the Virginia Tech students less safe, not more.
The Virginia Tech tragedy may not lead directly to more gun control, but I fear it will lead to more people control. Thanks to our media and many government officials, Americans have become conditioned to view the state as our protector and the solution to every problem. Whenever something terrible happens, especially when it becomes a national news story, people reflexively demand that government do something. This impulse almost always leads to bad laws and the loss of liberty. It is completely at odds with the best American traditions of self-reliance and rugged individualism.
Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, and metal detectors? Do we really believe government can provide total security? Do we want to involuntarily commit every disaffected, disturbed, or alienated person who fantasizes about violence? Or can we accept that liberty is more important than the illusion of state-provided security?
I fear that Congress will use this terrible event to push for more government mandated mental health programs. The therapeutic nanny state only encourages individuals to view themselves as victims, and reject personal responsibility for their actions. Certainly there are legitimate organic mental illnesses, but it is the role of doctors and families, not the government, to diagnose and treat such illnesses.
Freedom is not defined by safety. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference. Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens’ lives. Liberty has meaning only if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and a false government security blanket beckons.
- Congressman Ron Paul
Count of Saint Germain said,
April 24, 2007 at 3:22 am
u guys are boring zzzzz
dreamsend said,
April 24, 2007 at 3:28 am
u r really old
dreamsend said,
April 24, 2007 at 3:50 am
Folks might be interested in David Martin’s comment above if you missed it.
Banta said,
April 24, 2007 at 4:08 am
There you go, 11:11.
I knew the answer to the question “Why?” would start to present itself more as time passed.
11:11 said,
April 24, 2007 at 4:15 am
That’s ALWAYS the answer, Banta. The means to that end are the only thing we’re figuring out.
anonymous 1 said,
April 24, 2007 at 4:35 am
“Cho Seung Hui”–so, since when has US American media of any sorts reported Asian names in this manner? Though that’s the way it’s given in some foreign languages (like Korean), I don’t recall it ever having been reported that way before in English media… It’s always “Seung-Hui Cho”–Americanized.
Any autopsies ever done on these killers? Any search for chip implants, nanotechnology, brain irregularities, etc.?
Not very many stories from people who knew Cho when he was younger.
Banta said,
April 24, 2007 at 4:37 am
True, 11:11. But different incidents also seem to serve different parts of the overall agenda better than others. What I’m thinking one of the bigger keys in this one (and what I should have quoted before my reply), was this:
“I fear that Congress will use this terrible event to push for more government mandated mental health programs.”
Not that everything else Congressman Paul mentions isn’t a part of it, I just think this incident might place a higher emphasis on that part of the plan.
Faciamus said,
April 24, 2007 at 4:48 am
Interesting observations, most likely we’ll never know the truth.
ND said,
April 24, 2007 at 5:18 am
Why is no one in the blog sphere in contact with Mr. Springmeier? And Ted Gunderson – are these people not allowed to write to people outside their prisons?
dreamsend said,
April 24, 2007 at 5:23 am
Ted Gunderson is in prison? I wouldn’t let him walk my dog, personally.
Anyway, I added a couple lines to the post about the dates of graduation. The former principal of the school said a naughty lie.
“I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, but help me with this math. Michael Kennedy graduated in 2005 and Cho Seung-hui graduated in 2003. The former principle repeats this odd math.
“The killer’s been out of school for five years. Michael Kennedy had been out of school a year. There’s no correlation,” (former principle Campbell) said.
Hang on…let me try this out. 2005 – 2003 = 2. That’s a two year gap in graduation years. High school usually lasts 4 years. Or, let’s try his assertion that Cho had been “out of school for five years.” 2007 – 2003 = 4. And as to Kennedy having been out “one year”: 2007-2005 = 2. In other words, every single factual assertion in that statement is wrong.
I’ve seen no evidence that these two knew each other. But I also haven’t seen much evidence that anyone has bothered to check it out, much less bothered with the arithmetic. “
11:11 said,
April 24, 2007 at 5:46 am
Banta, not long ago I read that Bush made some suggestion about all school kids getting psych evaluations. I’m certain the schools will go along with that idea. They are the main pushers of Ritilan, afterall. Of course, the fact that so many of these killers were already on psych meds, and had seen shrinks, will be lost on the paranoid public. Better living through chemistry and the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act.
PirateNews.org said,
April 24, 2007 at 6:43 am
“It’s relevant that the worst school slaughter in USA was perped by an elected govt official, using a controlled demolition of preinstalled explosives. Sound familiar? Virginia Tech Massacre is kindergarten compared to what an elected member of a government school board did to little children in Michigan USA. But nobody discusses a ban on politicians. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This US politician also became the world’s first suicide car bomber.”
—John Lee, PirateNews.org, Bath School Massacre: US politician bombs US school – 45 dead, 18 April 2007
“With all due respect and sympathy to the victims and their families of the Columbine and McDonald’s shootings, the Oklahoma bombing, and other mass murders, they were not the worst mass murders of children in the US. On May 18, 1927, 45 people, mostly children, were killed and 58 were injured when disgruntled and demented school board member Andrew Kehoe dynamited the new school building in Bath, Michigan out of revenge over his foreclosed farm due in part to the taxes required to pay for the new school.”
—Ronald D. Bauerle, The Bath School Disaster
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm
“The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured 58. Most of the victims were children in second to sixth grades attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history. The perpetrator was school board member Andrew Kehoe, who was upset by a property tax that had been levied to fund the construction of the school building. He blamed the additional tax for financial hardships which led to foreclosure proceedings against his farm. These events apparently provoked Kehoe to plan his attack. On the morning of May 18, Kehoe first killed his wife and then set his farm buildings on fire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many of the people inside. Kehoe used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his shrapnel-filled vehicle, killing himself and the school superintendent, and killing and injuring several others. During the rescue efforts, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school’s south wing.”
—Wikipedia, Bath School disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
PirateNews.org said,
April 24, 2007 at 6:52 am
Name that poet:
Nigger
Can you kill
Can you kill
Can a nigger kill
Can a nigger kill a honkie
Can a nigger kill the Man
Can you kill nigger
Huh? Nigger can you
kill
Do you know how to draw blood
Can you poison
Can you stab-a-Jew
Can you kill huh? Nigger
Can you kill
Can you run a protestant down with your
‘68 El Dorado
(that’s all they’re good for anyway)
Can you kill
Can you piss on a blond head
Can you cut it off
Can you kill
A nigger can die
We ain’t got to prove we can die
We got to prove we can kill
and
Also a company called Revolution has just issued
A special kit for little boys
Called Burn Baby
I’m told it has full instructions on how to siphon gas
And fill a bottle
and
and it occurred to me
maybe i shouldn’t write
at all
but clean my gun
and check my kerosene supply
Answer:
Professor Yolande Cornelia “Nikki” Giovanni, English and Black Studies, Virginia Tech University, teacher of shooter Cho Seung-hui, who gave the eulogy for 33 students murdered by her student.
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070422_giovanni.htm
I wonder why Fox and CNN forgot to report that? It seems relevant to me.
Giovanni taught the Virginia Tech shooter Seung-hui Cho in a poetry class. She described him as troubled and downright “mean” and, when she approached the department chair to have Cho taken out of her class, said she was willing to resign rather than continue teaching him. She also claimed that she immediately suspected that Cho might be the shooter when she heard about the shooting, and would have been shocked otherwise. She has a tattoo with the words “Thug life” to honor Tupac Shakur, whom she admired.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Giovanni
Where is the (deleted) from?
(I don’t have time to deal with censoring the content of posts. You don’t get to call Nikki Giovanni “nigger” and if you can’t understand the context of the poem no one here is going to be able to explain it to you. In any event, it wasn’t just his poetry that was why she threatened to resign, it was his behavior. —DE)
Answer:
My home town in Tennessee (home of the UT Lady Vols versus the Rutgers Nappy Hos). Also home of Bushes’ Skull & Bones mayor/ambassador/boytoy Victor “Victoria” Ashe, introduced on TV as “the openly gay mayor of Knoxville”. Also home of Controlled Demolitions Inc, et al. Ashe now runs CIA death camps in Commie Poland.
to the idiot in #171 that just posted a comment said,
April 24, 2007 at 8:46 am
dear idiot,
this poem is over 40 years old and was written in response to something completely unrelated to the VA shootings.
theres no evidence she ever read this to her students.
its also interesting to note that she has a wide range of poetry rather
than just dark, psychopathic rantings as did Cho.
your stupidity is almost amusing.
http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/4/18/233457/556
veal said,
April 24, 2007 at 12:03 pm
“to the idiot”: Why are you so het up defending Nikki Giovanni? There’s no evidence she DIDN’T read it to her students, and why would she need to? And you don’t actually purport to have read everything Cho ever wrote, do you? And you don’t know that he wouldn’t have evened out in 40 more years, do you? YOUR stupidity is beyond amusing.
The point is that she came down mighty hard on a dead target, considering that she wrote the same “terrifying” and “disturbing” kind of material as Cho did. She’s a cheerleader for censorship who would possibly not be where she is now if she hadn’t been such a firebrand writer in her day. No defense of Cho, his actions or his writing implied here – but you know, we haven’t been allowed to read much of it, either. We have to take her word for it that it was of low quality and not up to her standards – but her poem isn’t exactly good, either.
sablekennedy said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Veal: “she came down mighty hard on a dead target”
Um, are we supposed to be singing his praises and remembering all the good he did in life? Are you telling me that if some crazy kid about whom you warned other professors and the administration shot 32 of your students, you wouldn’t “come down hard” on him?
“she wrote the same “terrifying” and “disturbing” kind of material as Cho did.”
As an AP English student and someone who owns no less than six rather hefty anthologies of poetry, I can tell you that you need to do some serious research about the differences between the speaker of a poem and its author. (As a matter of fact, if you made such a mistake in distinguishing the author from the speaker on the AP exam I am preparing to take, you would receive a score of 0, no questions asked.) It’s not as though she’s actually calling anyone “nigger” or suggesting that she wants to kill someone. She was trying to prove a point, and as for your comment that “her poem isn’t exactly good, either,” most people don’t realize that all poems are not meant to be flawless sonnets, flowing villanelles or rigid englyns. The villanelle, englyn, or sonnet form would not have worked in this poem; it would have conflicted with the tone and message. This is made evident by the fact that she wrote plenty of other poems with dozens upon dozens of other speakers and topics. What I’ve read of Cho’s work is FAR more graphic than either of those poems could ever be construed to be, even if you insist on identifying the author as the speaker.
dreamsend said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Please note that I edited “Piratenews’s” comments. As a general rule, I don’t have time to do that sort of thing, which is why I’m always nervous about this unmoderated format. I didn’t want to remove the comments because my intent was not to censor his idea (though I think very misguided) that Giovanni wrote “hateful” poetry. The only thing I censored was his or her use of the “n – word”. I promise, it’s not just because Pirate is a fellow Tennessean making us look bad.
But I was actually troubled by Giovanni’s comments about Cho. She didn’t threaten to resign just because his poetry was “intimidating” (her word) but also because of his behavior. Students found him “menacing” and he was taking people’s pictures.
But she called the notion that Cho was “troubled” “crap” and said he was just “mean”. Maybe that quote is out of context but that’s how Wiki had it. Even just the mainest of mainstream understanding of Cho would have to include the idea that he was mentally ill in some way.
I also thought it interesting that pirate posted an article from vdare, which is where much of Paul Craig Roberts’ writing appears. Go read around at vdare and then go ask yourself why Counterpunch keeps printing Roberts’ stuff.
Oh and I have good news, Pirate! The cold war ended. Capitalism won! Yay Capitalism!
dreamsend said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Heh, just read sablekennedy’s post. Piratenews gets schooled by a highschooler.
Red Dog said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:43 pm
You need anti psycotic medication for your own delusional mind. What a wack job.
fuzzypeach said,
April 24, 2007 at 1:54 pm
the 171st. comment wasn’t too bright, no, but I like what post 158 said about personal worth. even 171 has a place in the world, if not for comedy relief purposes only…
I have a friend that is troubled like cho and I don’t really know what to do about it. talks about joining the illuminati…which most of us here know about from countless internet posts exposing it as a powerful satanic cult. I guess he let himself get pushed around in life, never sticking up for himself. I am autistic too, but I learned how to relate after awhile. I was just blessed by people’s kindness eventually. something that came too late for cho and all the people he shot.
THe evil geniuses do have control of the world and that’s how they get that way….no-one listens to them or shows them love so they climb the ladder of satanic hierarchy hoping to fit in somewhere while proceeding to ruin the lives of so many. cho is just another victim become perpetrator in their backward machine.
???just wondering why, after 173 comments or so I am the first to notice, albeit some years ago when I left North America…(I don’t know how anyone can live with that level of paranoia and not clue in) to what’s really going down!! the shooting scares are a plot to get gun control legislation up and running, yes.. i think one person at least got that far–but that’s still the WHAT, not the WHY!! I’ve yet to see someone answer that out of ALL these posts–question mark indeed. If I answered it for you I’d be carted off to a nice new facility for freedom fighters, i mean what are nowadays called terrorists, to be imprisoned or killed. Get informed you guys, for unbeknownst to you–yes YOU–are being fattened up for slaughter…
fuzzypeach said,
April 24, 2007 at 2:08 pm
before you call someone or anyone delusional, get informed– maybe its you.
Mi said,
April 24, 2007 at 2:28 pm
One point that people need to agree on but refuse to admit is that every person in existence has a lot of thinking, self-education, and introspection to do.
to the idiots.... said,
April 24, 2007 at 5:06 pm
“yaaaaawn…..”
if you’ve ever read Giovannis’ BOOKS of poetry you’ll realize she rights honestly about love, hearbreak, social awareness, etc.
even though we haven’t read all if any of Cho’s writings…
comparing the two is completely ridiculous.
she had HIM removed out of fear for her own safety..
and she is a pioneer of social justice and awareness and has been for years..
(google for a speech she gave about Emmitt Till…a lynching victim)
do you honestly think that if she wrote a single violent poem that she should be compared to a murderer?
not to say that her poem was great or even descent, but she has claimed to have wrote it in response to Vietnam and it was in the language of the same devils that
don’t care about a human life (during the 60s) if that human isn’t white.
the logic of 171 could be applied to the violence in ‘Dante’s Inferno’ as well…read this and ask yourself if you think this work of art should be taught in schools.
as posted in other responses….
it all boils down to personal responsibility.
(oh and thank you #176…you covered some stuff i didnt notice.)
veal said,
April 24, 2007 at 9:13 pm
I don’t think that if she had an entire CAREER writing violent poetry, she should be “compared to a murderer” – any more than ANY of us can. Cho was human too, is all I was saying.
I enjoy disturbing writng, and as a fiction reader and not a fan of much poetry, I have nonetheless enjoyed Bukowski, Sharon Olds, World War I authors, others – all often VERY disturbing. I’m well aware that poetry is far from Emily Dickinson’s standard and needs follow no rules! I do NOT, however, think Giovanni’s poem was very good, nor did I find it particularly disturbing. I am sure she has other fine works and is an upstanding person, but that’s got no bearing on comparing that particular work to any other (in my opinion).
sablekennedy, I neither feel obliged to “sing his praises” nor vilify him. What does either matter, how does either help? I’m just trying to look clearly at what’s been laid in front of me so far, and it’s a muddled mess. I’m not – on his SIDE or anything!
Finally, the concept that Cho was an English major and that those two “plays” are the sum total of what we’re going to see of his writing is absurd. English majors are required to write any number of things. I don’t think letting people see what he wrote does anything but lift veils that need to be lifted, at least not if presented without the constant editorializing I’m seeing recently. Where are the years of offensive writing I’m led to believe lay behind him?
HMW said,
April 24, 2007 at 10:27 pm
TPTB know that a side effect of using TV and movies to condition a guaranteed pool of violent recruitable males is ‘leaking’ of that aggression into the domestic culture, more commonly as domestic violence against women and children.
This is why they want to examine and medicate those who might ‘go off’ and lead some to consider that violent imagery might be THE problem.
But having one go off more rarely to distract and also to validate a police state is useful.
Ex-CIA whistleblower Ralph McGeehee writes in his 1983 book, ‘Deadly Deceits,’ that when he joined up and was being indoctrinated with anti-Communist films and lectures they were told:
“The Soviet Union preys on lonely, shy, antisocial outcasts in this country and recruits them into the American Communist Party. These people have no friends, no links to decent society. The Soviets brainwash and exploit those undesirable humans to the point where they plan to violently overthrow our government.”
Now the red-scare tone of the times is obvious but I think that the description of those vulnerable to manipulation by sophisticated organizations which keep an eye out for a personality type in order to channel their frustrations sounds accurate.
And it is a perfect description of Cho. It wouldn’t take John Gittinger to find him.
Sheree said,
April 25, 2007 at 1:14 am
Neurological Technology 29
Implants 31 http://pdftohtml.markoer.org/pdf2html.php?url=http://projectcensored.org/newsflash/ElectromegnaticWeapons.pdf
As always…Thanks for encouraging THINKING !
Love & Light,
~~Radine!~~
*************************
Yes, I have read this doc and it’s stunning. When you factor in this info, it makes the Cho shooting some plausible, given all the other so called *coincidences*. Its at least not crazy to discuss it. This is something, personally, I would like to see deeply investigated. HAW. Oh well.
There is a whole lot about this stinky affiar that smells. In the meantime, I will hope that some alternative investigative journalists take it on. It would be the story of the century if it turns out that our hunches are correct.
Peace
Sheree said,
April 25, 2007 at 1:51 am
For all of you logged on here, trying to post with fake names. You do understand that there are smart peeps who can get your IP address in the time it takes you to unseat your wedgy. There is no longer any disquise you can where online. Not any more. You can call yourself. “DON’T WANNA BE SEEN” and you are still seen. It IS a brave new world, as Huxley so aptly foretold.
This bog, that blog, all blogs are tracked. It’s not your screen name that is important. It’s your IP address. All it takes is advance permission of your cable provider so they can get your registration info. It takes less than a sec. That would have tons of info.
By the way, what are you afraid of?
Torture and death….
Owl food?
Sheree said,
April 25, 2007 at 2:31 am
K. Just read through all the posts, I think. I think I missed the N– poetry.
The motive?
Gun control.
The Luciferian Gov cannot get control to handily, without a scene, if people still have guns.
One school shooting at a time.
I am happy to announce that since the Dems are just another side of the same coin, and the Libertarians are outnumbered, gun control will look far different in 5 years.
One clip at a time. That’s how they work.
Slowly and methodically.
Why?
Cuz there are people on both sides who will not go along if evil is really obvious.
Banta said,
April 25, 2007 at 3:03 am
Does gun control matter THAT much? What good is an assault rifle gonna do against a tank?
You might say “Look at Iraq”, but I doubt very much that the situation in America would ever get to that point. The American people simply don’t have it in them. And if they did, the legality of weapons wouldn’t really be an issue in that sort of situation.
Joe Spenner said,
April 25, 2007 at 3:20 am
The biggest mind-control-programming of all has to be a documentary by a young Mother and the man who rescued her from being “used up,” in a bloody sex orgy.
The authors have both stopped replying to our letters. After you read their book:
“TRANCE FORMATION OF AMERICA, by Cathy O’Brien with Mark Phillips, it raises strong circumstantion evidence they may have been silenced, disappeared or sent to be “RENDERED!” Get their book, unless it is already censored.
11:11 said,
April 25, 2007 at 3:44 am
Uh, I don’t think ANYONE with a few brain cells thinks the internet isn’t monitored. We use screen names and hide our emails for some anonymity from the general public, and to not get our email accounts spammed into oblivion.
Fuzzypeach, a lot of us know the answer to your “why”. I think you can find it here:
http://www.jpfo.org/deathgc.htm
Scroll down for the facts.
Banta said,
April 25, 2007 at 7:04 am
Off topic, but this is a really good read. I’m sure some of you are already aware of some of the details of this, but the article gives good insight (if you know how to read it) into how the CIA operates.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.05/feat_cia.html
11:11 said,
April 25, 2007 at 7:28 am
Lest we forget the problems we’re up against:
fuzzypeach said,
April 25, 2007 at 2:57 pm
hey thanks you guys : ) here’s another one on a MUCH lighter note….who woulda thought this guy could put a ham sandwich together, never mind fight for peace.
slivermoon22 said,
April 25, 2007 at 4:41 pm
I am now listening in Alex Jones radio show and he just NOW said that the VA TECH incident was absolutely Black Op.
http://www.prisonplanet.com
Since I trust him, I believe him.
He also says to go and watch THE SHOOTER. With Marc Walberg. Says if you are a Truther….you MUST see this movie.
All about Black Ops.
B said,
April 25, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Finally, my suspicions confirmed – it was indeed a black op! When there are too many questions that the Gov’t won’t answer (or thier answers only to generate mo’ questions), one must turn to conspiratorial views, which is usually the case.
April 19th – the VT massacre seems to have been part of the Illuminati’s celebration of thier un-holy day, although it didn’t take place exactly on the 19th (just like we don’t always celebrate our Birthdays on the exact date). If you look back in history, too many events have taken place on or around April 19 with the following common elements: Incendiaries/fire, ammunitions/explosives, mass loss of life (human sacrifices). Even during the entire week of the April 19th this year, we saw the following events:
1. VT massacre
2. Gunman at NASA’s Johnson Space Cente CA (Kills himself)
3. Gunman kills himself in Florida after threatening to Kill hostages
4. Largest bombing in Iraq this year (183 dead)
How’s that for an evil celebration?!
Link here for past events on/around April 19th:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/april19.htm
http://www.illuminati-news.com/april-19th-numerology.htm
http://www.infowars.com/articles/occult/terror_attack_numerology_updatehtm.htm
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19575.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_19
download free documentary videos, audio books and documents (94 GIGABytes worth!!) here:
http://nw0.info/
“The truth is out there – when you find it, keep looking” – the late Peter Jennings, ABC News
11:11 said,
April 25, 2007 at 7:53 pm
That articel on smoking is pretty interesting.
“The term “passive smoking” (Passivrauchen) was coined by the Nazi Anti-Tobacco League. Its author, Fritz Lickint, offered no supporting evidence to claim that smokers poisoned everyone around them, while also stating that drinking coffee caused cancer.”
BackInTheDreamtime said,
April 25, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Among the many things that strike me as odd is that Lucinda Roy gave Mr. Cho an “A“ in creative writing. We have only the two plays to judge by, but If I`d written that badly in my college courses, I think I would have been lucky to get a passing grade.
By the way–I`ve noticed that many articles about the shooting are disappearing from the Internet . . . so in case anyone finds anything interesting, I`d recommend printing it out.
11:11 said,
April 27, 2007 at 7:26 pm
DE, I can’t wait for a new entry because I’m so sick of looking at that psycho pic of Cho!
steam's end? said,
April 27, 2007 at 8:13 pm
yeah man, make with the postage already! theres a buncha creepy crystal-huggin dudes outside my window trying to sell me a bunch of peace love and resignation to my fate and what not. help before they turn me into a pod person! omg im starting to sprout dreads, save meee!
dreamsend said,
April 27, 2007 at 10:27 pm
I am maybe halfway done with the new post. It’s also on school shootings, a definite detour. Then I’ll be back to the SRI. The whole Cho as Oldboy thing got picked up by the mainstream media so now I feel stupid having it on here…but I guess I’ll just leave it for now.
Steam’s end, you might want to ease up on those herbal supplements.
Banta said,
April 28, 2007 at 12:04 am
“The whole Cho as Oldboy thing got picked up by the mainstream media so now I feel stupid having it on here…”
That’s what you get for stealing a picture from Something Awful.
HMW said,
April 28, 2007 at 7:57 am
Er, DE. You’ve got a redirect link to a mirror of your Cho article in your ‘recent posts’ section. Looks…northern European perhaps?
Here’s the link-
http://dewaarheid.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/cho-seung-hui-and-the-not-so-secret-school/
Himmlerian said,
April 28, 2007 at 3:50 pm
What an AMAZING COINCIDENCE – NOT!
Please google PROJECT MONARCH – which also just “happens” to be based in Blacksburg, VA!
Yup, this very likely may have been a C!A mind-control black-op.
11:11 said,
April 28, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Um, am I hallucinating, or was there a new blog entry yesterday, which is now gone??? I could have sworn I saw one?
Buddy Hinton said,
April 29, 2007 at 10:55 am
If Cho Seung-Hui had not been unreasonably fearful, had used common sense and not had a gun, a beautiful young man would still be alive. There are too many Cho Seung-Hui out there too many little people of limited social skills, limited practical intelligence and limited conscience who not only fail to think before they act but refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Our Constitution does not give us rights without responsibility, so where is the personal responsibility in this?
We have the NRA to thank not only for the deletion of personal responsibility from the equation, but for all the people who will die as the result.
11:11 said,
April 30, 2007 at 2:29 am
The Constitution does NOT “give” rights. It merely acknowledges the rights that human beings are born with. The document is a chain upon government, defining very clearly what government may or may not do.
The NRA has nothing to do with any of this.
Brett said,
April 30, 2007 at 5:06 am
Quite correct about rights, 11:11.
The correct understanding of the concept of “rights,” as envisioned by John Locke—upon whose philosophy most of the Founders based much of our Constitution—is that rights are “innate” and “inalienable,” certainly NOT that they are “given” to us by the government.
Indeed if “the government” can “give” rights, it can also “take them away.” IT CAN DO NEITHER; it can merely “recognize” rights that are ALREADY possessed by humans, innately.
This business of the government “giving” rights is a pernicious LIE being promoted by social engineers, and being swallowed whole and entire by many in our populace who have fallen victim to it.
11:11 said,
April 30, 2007 at 6:23 am
Thank GOD that somebody knows their history. I cringe every time I hear people talking about rights being somehow granted by the Constitution. The level of ignorance about this is frightening. Even worse, is that people are actually walking around without a SENSE of these rights, or what it means to be free.
11:11 said,
April 30, 2007 at 6:19 pm
DE, where are you??? Did I, or did I not, see a new blog entry, with 14 replies, that disappeared?
dreamsend said,
April 30, 2007 at 9:13 pm
I have not posted again…and so I doubt there could have been comments. Sometimes I worry that I will accidentally post a draft before it is done…but it would still be there. Sorry also for the delay…my computer is overheating and I have to install a new cpu fan. Keeps cutting off.
Here’s a really interesting link from someone by email:
http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57260&start=1050
This is at the end of a very long link started by a guy (His name is “veritas” and no, I have nothing to do with that for anyone who know I posted briefly at RI under that name.) who lives near VTech and his kids were in school in lockdown mode (evidently before college kids were even notified of a shooting.) Here’s the relevant section:
———————begin quote—————————————-
I see right now I’m gonna have to go take some pictures for you guys, because the info they are releasing is very misleading.
First off, the VA Tech Campus and Blacksburg is NOT a very big place. The maps are making it look huge, but it’s not. This is backwater village usa…got it?
The post offices in the area are OLD, except for the new Christiansburg office. I imagine the reason the package was sent at 9:01 was becuase the Post OFfice window did not open until 9am.
Parking at VA Tech sucks. So thinking he drove to the post office and then drove back to campus and found parking is crazy. It would have been faster to walk.
Next thing…those big wooden doors they keep showing ARE NOT USED!!!! I walked around VA Tech trying to get into the library…I tried at least 4 of those wood doors…they are ALL locked from the inside…and they may have already been chained to keep people from using them…but that would be against fire code regulations and we wouldn’t want that to get out, now would we? Considering that VT had been in the newspapers many times in the past 7 years for building code violations. VT has spent billions the past years to build a smart road…they have enlarged their football stadium to 10 times it’s original size, built a new hotel and conference center but cannot find the funds to get their classrooms up to code.
The above is fact SOD…remember, I live here and you don’t. But if you care to do a search in the Roanoke times you will find the news articles on the disrepair of the classroom buildings.
All of the buildings at VT have the fake wooden doors but the actuall entrance to the buidlings are modern GLASS doors. Easily broken.
Still, no one in the area is talking about the fact that Montgomery County Schools were in lock down by 9am. Look when I started this thread. It was less than 40 minutes after the shooting stopped.
There were already Federal troops at the campus because of bomb threats the week before, so why the delay?
I only know of one shooting range around here. IT’s in the basement of the local Diary Queen, 5 lights down the street.
Oh and another thing…how come no one has noticed that VT was part of Nobel Resolve???? The real name for VT is VA Polytechnic Institute and State University…it is NOT VA Tech University….only 2 schools in the state were listed as being part of the Nobel Resolve operation…UVA and VT. The biggest in-state rivals.
And the zip code thing is really odd. It is NOT a Blacksburg zip code. Christiansburg is 24073 which is the closest I can find to the zip used on Cho’s package…
AND…Cho’s name was not in the VA Tech database an hour after the shootings. I checked. Anyone who is paying VT funds or getting a pay check from VT is in that database. I know some of the guys who run the database for Tech…they didn’t remove Cho’s info that fast, they were too busy eating and pirating software.
Another thing that I find suspect…remember the girl with the shaved head that survived the shootings in one of the classrooms? She was interviewed not 2 hours later…she was just wandering around campus like nothing had happened. She wasn’t even very upset. But there was a guy on one of the news channels the next morning…he was interviewed really early like around 7am…he was in one of the rooms also, but he had been spirited away to his home in Portsmouth…and if you watch this boy, he is furious about something. Probably because he was told what he could say…I wish I remembered his name or what channel I was watching at the time.
Oh, and what about….
one of the first victims that was interviewed was the boy that was shot through his arm…in his interview he names the type of gun used and the amount of ammo used…
the last guy to get shot could do the same thing…named the gun used and told about how much ammo he used…and yet none of these guys DID anything??????
The mind control was used on the victims…Cho was not the only one.
Consider this…VT up until the past 2 years, when they became an ACC school, was THE REDNECK university in the US…it was an agriculture school. When visiting the library and trying to find a place to park you would notice immediately the amount of 4×4 with lift kits and floatation tires…it was the only place in town that I didn’t feel out of place with my big honkin’ Lincoln Town Car…where were these guys when the shooting was going on?
————–end quote———————–
I too wondered about the skinhead girl. In a German class, no less. She did not seem real shaken up and the German teacher seemed to have been directly targeted…Cho walked right in and shot him then the students. Definitely something weird about that. And if Norris does have glass doors and also ALREADY had doors chained in firecode violations…well, that alone is worth mainstream media interest.
11:11 said,
April 30, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Very interesting. I’m a member at FCN, but don’t read ot post often.
I suspected that story about the chained doors from git go. How may times have we heard of horrible fires where exit doors were chained? This is not uncommon, though highly illegal.
And, the bald chick – when I saw her I thought she was very suspicious. Absolutely no emotion whatsoever. And, yes, DE, German class – I made not of that. as well.
I wish we could see the news video of the angry kid the FCN poster mentioned.
I gotta tell you, I’m really concerned about all of the mind controlled people out there. Even more so when I think of how many might be cops or military.
Don’t naybody believe that gun control will stop anything like what happened at VT. On the contrary, it’s the law abiding gun owners who might just save everybody’s asses one of these days. I hope like hell we don’t see that day.
I’m gonna go get you a stunning Cisco Wheeler quote, DE, made pre 1998.
11:11 said,
April 30, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Wayne Morris:
What kind of things do you expect will occur in the future that relate to this?
Cisco Wheeler:
I believe that the people in the world are going to wake up some day very soon and realize that the stock market has crashed, that financially the world has been crushed. They are going to realize that their food and grain has been contaminated, that their medical field has been dominated by the Illuminati medical force because the Illuminati has infiltrated every aspect of our lives. They are going to realize that we don’t have the freedom to even speak for our children, that the government has more to say in regards to our children than we do, they can take them and control them at any given point. We are going to realize that the churches are not what they seem to have been – that the churches have been infiltrated. There is nothing left. There is nothing that has not been touched by the Illuminati and its family.
Wayne Morris:
Is there a time when this is going to be implemented in terms of a one world, military government?
Cisco Wheeler:
Definitely. I expect 1998 to be a year of turmoil as far as people coming to terms with the knowledge that the government is not what they thought it was, the church is not what they thought it was, people they have looked up to are not who they thought they were.
Wayne Morris:
What kinds of things do you believe these power groups who belong to the Illuminati will try and implement in terms of controlling people’s anger and responses to what they’ve got planned? What is their retaliation?
Cisco Wheeler:
To eliminate the people as a whole – anyone who doesn’t come under submission of the New World Order will be eliminated.
Wayne Morris:
Do you think they will use the mind controlled victims to implement that?
Cisco Wheeler:
Most definitely.
Wayne Morris:
How do you think that is going to come about?
Cisco Wheeler:
They can use any slave that has been under mind control to accomplish any goal they have set forth with an access code, they can blow up a bridge, they can assassinate any leader – a governor, mayor, pastor – anyone that gets in the Illuminati’s path, who will not bend or bow to the Illuminati structure – they have slaves in force who will just go and eliminate them. Whatever is needed, it is there. I guarantee you it is there.
Wayne Morris:
There have been quite a number of survivors of mind control talking about end-times programming where they know they are going to be triggered to do something. Is this related to that?
Cisco Wheeler:
Yes it is. Most definitely is. There is a clock ticking and it is going to strike midnight soon, and when it does, all hell is going to break loose within the world.
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln22.htm
Now, I’ve gotta say, this is some really bizarre reading, but then all of this mind control stuff is. It was her mentioning contaminated grain that really made me sit up and listen. I fully believe the pet food contamination was deliberate (I’ve switched to homemade for my dogs ever since the story broke). Now, there are stories this is in the human food chain.
As far out as all of this Illumanti/ruling elite stuff sounds, I think it’s true.
dreamsend said,
May 2, 2007 at 2:34 am
Test comment. Weird things happening at WordPress. Just seeing if I can still comment.
Bozo said,
May 3, 2007 at 4:56 am
Interesting link to the “New Freedom”–forced mental health evaluations. Let Big Brother peek inside your school to root out any ThoughtCrime.
Hmm anyone find this link interesting?
http://www.fightcps.com/articles/newfreedom-2004.html
Jess said,
May 7, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Are you kidding!? [...It’s not that strange that a violence-haunted young South Korean would be attracted to a violent South Korean film...]
Seunghui Cho is much like the girl Lara Croford in Tomb raider. See the pictures in next web site!!! You will be surprised!!!!
http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/shellview2.htm?articleid=20070420204014534e5&linkid=615&newssetid=3732&title=%B9%CC%B1%B9+%BB%E7%BB%F3%C3%D6%BE%C7+%C3%D1%B1%E2%B3%AD%BB%E7&page=1
Dreamsend « immergeil said,
May 15, 2007 at 8:53 am
[...] was the conclusion of the work/discussion of http://dreamsend.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/cho-seung-hui-and-the-not-so-secret-school and the arcticle in the “Guardian Weekly” named “Campus shooting the deadliest in [...]
Filmnoir23 said,
May 22, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Dreamsend
You are in Blacksburg? Do you have any NEW info about the shootings? I was curious that Cho did not show up in the school database…you confirmed this yourself? Wow…hadn’t heard that before. I’d be interested to hear any other things you’ve come across since this happened.
dreamsend said,
May 24, 2007 at 3:01 am
I don’t live in Blacksburg. I never said he didn’t show up in the database…or at least I never meant to. I have limited internet access at the moment…hope to be around more very soon.
Dude love said,
May 28, 2007 at 7:31 am
Cho seung hui wasnt possessed by demons as some people (religious ones) think, He acted in his OWN evil agenda. He deliberately went out and brought guns and ammo and worked out to look ‘tough’, then went out and murdered ‘rich’ people (or people he thought was rich).
He then killed himself knowing when he’s caught, he’d get the gallows and struggle like a fish out of water until he strangles to death on the rope. Or he’d get the chair and his head would explode in a shower of flaming blood, or he’d get the lethal injection and try to scream, but he’s paralysed and the agony of the toxins in his blood ruins him. or he’d get the gas chamber and writhe in perpetional agony as the poison fumes suffocate him, or he’d get the firing squad! 12 men or women shoot him and if he survives being peppered with bullets he slumps on the steak he’s tied to and bleeds to death in agony!
He’s in hell right now….I wonder what they did to him when he arrived?
Lets guess now…..since his soul would take on ‘physical’ form in hell and would endure a ‘endless death’ that never ends even if he received a ‘fatal’ blow, anyhow, when he enters hell, his soul instantly endures agony from hells power, Satan or Shinnok may even meet him first and say “Welcome to Hell stupid creature, I will enjoy this!” and then attack him along with infinite demon souls and he’d have his skin ripped from him, his flesh peeled off and boiled in pots, his eyes gouged out, his fingernails plucked out, a red hot spear slammed up his rectum and it squirts magma inside his anus, his penis split in half, his flesh riddled skeleton dunked into acid, his bones bent backwards hyperextended until they snap, then his teeth ripped out and nails shoved into where the nerve endings are where the teeth once were, then his jaw ripped out, his nose snipped off, and his ears torn off and needles shoved into his ear holes, his body organs sliced up slowly as they’re cut out, then all put into a boiling pot of blood and cooked while his remenants writhe in agony, then they’re scattered all over hell where they reform into ‘physical’ form again and have more horrors done to them, meanwhile his ’skeleton’ of his soul is crushed into powder and poured into a void of nothingness, his soul screams in eternal agony as the rest of his soul’s ‘physical’ form (his body and all of its bits) are eternally hacked and ripped to bits for all eternity. Eventually, all of his soul and its ‘physical’ parts which allows him to be tortured in hell is brought together as one and roughly put together again, and then the process begins once more. After what seems to be a eternity of agony, he is mutated into a demon and when his ’soul’ again takes physical form, he is now a Wraith-Demon, a new soldier of Satans eternal army of hate and he roams the void of Hell along with other demons, fighting eachother and devouring new and old souls in a insane desperate attempt to escape the eternal agony that constantly assults his demonic essence or his so-called ’soul’
Now then…..I dare someone to post this info to this demons mortal family and see their reaction as they realise their sons fate….And KEEP sending it to them to remind them that he is in hell and he’ll NEVER escape.
Brett said,
May 28, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Gosh—and that was “Dude Love.”
I can only imagine what “Dude Hate” might have to say.
Banta said,
May 29, 2007 at 5:04 am
You know, given what this blog covers, it’s amazing that post 220 is by far the craziest thing ever written here.
Unless 220 is some sort of standup routine. In which case, bravo! But it probably won’t play in the Midwest.
dreamsend said,
May 29, 2007 at 6:35 am
I thought it was going to be porn spam.
Oh wait…it was.
Lance said,
May 29, 2007 at 10:56 am
11:11 said
Lance said,
May 29, 2007 at 10:59 am
11:11,
And I don’t remember any sex scandal during my time at DLI-POM. Fill me in.
HMW said,
May 29, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Anyone else see that Time Magazine put a special ‘The Sopranos’ magazine out for the supermarket checkout chute racks?
Usually Time puts out big news disaster specials like ‘Katrina Commemorative’ or ‘9/11 Anniversary.’
Time has been CIA for decades, of course, and I see an increase in violent social-engineering from the CIA’s msm.
A 2004 book that was seventh in a series melding philosophy with TV shows (Seinfeld, Simpsons, Buffy, etc.) was called ‘The Sopranos and Philosophy: I Kill Therefore I Am.’
Yes, “I Kill Therefore I Am.” The most cogent US motto ever.
nicholette pavlevsky said,
August 24, 2007 at 3:15 am
i am in blacksburg right now investagating the shoting. i read till 4 in the morning all the entries here. thanks to thoughs that have added to my research. vary informitive!!!!! to thoughs that have doubt about mind control and why they would do a school shoting, i can tell you from pesonal mind control experiance it is true and i almost became a mass killer too, luckly i was able to stop myself and not listen to the voices in my head. i now am remembering the mind control that was done to me in fort belfore Va. (in the same area of west field high and the CIA head qurters in fair fax) i served in the Army in ‘88 in Korea, cowinkadinkly. i go to alot of “conspiericy conferances” and i am up to par on the info there. all the bad conspiericy stuff siad here is unfortunately real. i started my investagation on the vidio pics not matching the vt id pic and i too think there is a differance, though im not as sure now that i have seen some other pics. but i still think it is mind control. the pic that shows the VT juornleist getting arested dose resemble the guy that got in a car reck, strange, he was my pick for the real mind control op that did it!! he looked like the “Cho” in the vidios. but now not sure, still hunting this down. is there a duoble like in JFK ? multible shooters? any help is appreciated thetruthbus@mac.com
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Hogfart said,
May 23, 2009 at 1:34 am
Two sides confusing the issues…
Side A wants to convince everyone Demons made Cho do it
Side B want everyone to believe Cho did it alone
The truth is more like this, there were no demons involved and Cho most likely had accomplices like all of the other Lone Nuts the crypto-CIA and its underground agents want you to believe worked alone